Monjoronson and the Madhi

[mrscbvet]

Moe,
Your hypothesis regarding the "romans" sounds entirely possible to me. I was just this morning discussing "organized" religion with someone and what you said makes sense to me.
Brenda

[nasra1996]

Hi Mo:

You said:

How about Roman Catholics and all other hierarchical religious organizations? Maybe it means that all man-made religions will eventually fall and be replaced by more personal and spiritual approaches.

I think that is very interesting what you wrote, I had never thought of that.....i was thinking more along the lines of a current empire....but what you say does sound plausible... I read also in the book that He will reclaim Istanbul/Constantinople... interestingly enough, that is where Western Christianity was first established/born... by the King of Byzantine (with Saul)... (well i read that)..They were pagan before this conversion. Also the 'Original Quran' is kept there, protected... Istanbul was once the Capital/centre of the muslim world before that Syria, then colonialists seperated the whole kingdom into different countries....they were all one before this. How he reclaims this place is not understood, there have been too many corrupt interpretations of this man, he is described as, 'The awaited one, The Guided one'... and, "His reign will be an inward and spiritual one".. so that dont suggest any conflict..... Anyway we can read something and interepret it in any way we choose, so best not get too carried away.... Also they may not be the same person..... I will go back and read somemore.....

With Love Sarah xxx

[Davidjayjordan]

Conquer Istanbul, interesting, as I thought the Madhi, or Teacher or ***Prophet as mentioned in the Bible would come from the Mid east, and so what better place than Istanbul, a meeting of cultures, a melting of religions into ONE. Muslims with Christians and take over Judiasm, by his man conquering physically Jerusalem.

Thanks Nasra

[Woody]

Hello friends,

Well, if there is to be such a "war", it will be a war of the spirit and not of the sword.

More likely is the population of the world simply learning the truth, most notably of course by the widespread dissemination of The Urantia Book. Folks will simply walk away from all of the institutional religions of ecclesiatical authority and begin practicing the true religion of personal experience with God that the UB and Jesus teaches.

Keep thinking friends!

Woody

[Geoff]

Hi Davidjayjordan

Welcome to our board.

love,
Geoff.

[adbox]

Nasra1996 wrote

I read yesterday in a book that he will defeat the Romans... no one knows what that means, who would be the romans of today... it doesnt mean Italy...

How about Roman Catholics and all other hierarchical religious organizations? Maybe it means that all man-made religions will eventually fall and be replaced by more personal and spiritual approaches.
If you look around, I think that it's already happening if you take this forum, and many others, as evidence. From what I can percieve, attendence is down in many churches... ... in Canada anyway. The youth especially seem to be turning away from organized religion. And I don't think it has anything to do with our society becoming more amoral... just more people, in many cases, turning away from the status quo and seeking more palatable and personal alternatives.
Remember that we are part of the correcting times... why seek God through intermediaries and religious representatives when a direct connection is achievable by all?

church has become like a false idol. full of theatrics. low on the word. I should go and try to reform. but i dont think i'm ready. and you are always that kid within your hometown. My friends and living envirioment has become my church... and my bathroom for some odd reason.

and like u said. our body is our means of spiritual connections and growth.
but chruch could be used for social goods. like habitat for humanity. but these globo churchs unease me.

[adbox]

Hello friends,

Well, if there is to be such a "war", it will be a war of the spirit and not of the sword.

More likely is the population of the world simply learning the truth, most notably of course by the widespread dissemination of The Urantia Book. Folks will simply walk away from all of the institutional religions of ecclesiatical authority and begin practicing the true religion of personal experience with God that the UB and Jesus teaches.

Keep thinking friends!

Woody

I call this war the end of the Ism's (like nationalism, capitolism, racism). But i dont think there will be mass spiritual conversion without some kind of fight. People will fight to keep their satitc situation. They will fight for their unethicly earned powers. This is my hunch. In no way is it a prayer. I would like to see enlightenment the easy way, not the hard way.

As far as politics, the warriors of today know that there is an internal spiritual struggle within our own nation. It is an information war, bc with todays politics(pseudo democracy) and military strengths... the physical swords are worthless.

....

I like the woodcuts of jesus christ and the divine heart. Jesus has his heart exposed, with a thorn encirclement which means the marriage to the material world, and a sword through it, which means it is pierced by the word of god, and it is on fire for us. .


-------------------

Hey what does the Book of Urania say about the divinity of jesus christ? Was he the son of man and god, half bound the the limits of humanity and human nature and the other half bound to the will of god? Is that why even he had to die? And does that make Christ Michael the Angel version of Jesus Christ? And does that mean that There is a Dolphin version a jesus christ... considering they have their own language and intellegence that "suposivly" rivals our own. see the logic?

and if all this is true... then could there be a perfected incarnation of god within the material realm? And would he appear to be human, or just one big ball of energy?

Or could he not exist int he material world, because the complete total of everything makes up his image, and through us and his creation he manifests himself.

and did he have a wife, as to show humankind that this was the example he wants us to follow. To chose a partner. Learn to Love, and have more children?

I am asking here, because I know that some of you can talk to them(Christ Michael, and Jesus Christ) These are questions that rest on my soul daily.

[Geoff]

Dear adbox,

Hey what does the Book of Urania say about the divinity of jesus christ? Was he the son of man and god, half bound the the limits of humanity and human nature and the other half bound to the will of god? Is that why even he had to die? And does that make Christ Michael the Angel version of Jesus Christ? And does that mean that There is a Dolphin version a jesus christ... considering they have their own language and intellegence that "suposivly" rivals our own. see the logic?

Jesus is a Creator Son, who came here, as a pure human, and did not know who he really was, until he managed to perfect his connection with his indwelling thought adjuster, from whom he learned all truth.

There was no "need" for Jesus to die, in that it effected no miraculous spiritual purpose.

Christ Michael, is the being that existed before Jesus. Very very long before.

I am not 100% convinced by the dolphin stuff. I find it interesting. If they are a spiritual species, they are different to us, and whatever happens to them is not relevant to us.

and if all this is true... then could there be a perfected incarnation of god within the material realm? And would he appear to be human, or just one big ball of energy?

Or could he not exist int he material world, because the complete total of everything makes up his image, and through us and his creation he manifests himself.

As we have just learned, there are compromises in materialising, and Monjoronson will appear like one of us, but will not have all the knowledge at his disposal that he would have in Paradise. He will stil have all wisdom, however. That sounds like a contradiction, but wisdom and knowledge are different.

love,
Geoff.

[adbox]

Dear adbox,

There was no "need" for Jesus to die, in that it effected no miraculous spiritual purpose.

Christ Michael, is the being that existed before Jesus. Very very long before.

As we have just learned, there are compromises in materialising, and Monjoronson will appear like one of us, but will not have all the knowledge at his disposal that he would have in Paradise. He will stil have all wisdom, however. That sounds like a contradiction, but wisdom and knowledge are different.

love,
Geoff.

So whats up with the cross sybolism? I have heard scholars refer to the death of jesus christ as the death of the human ego. so you have a guy who claims to be one with god, but he is still victim to being a human. And he has to die and progress like every human. but while he was here he would paint an example on how to live from the heart, and for man to follow it. And christianity has told me that its because god lived as human, that he understands us and is able to empathise with us on the levels we need to be empathized with??????

Are you saying christ michael was a human once as well? Now he is an angel that exists in the higher relms?

Do angels claim to have free will? and if they do what makes them so much different than humans? and why are humans promised to be (more efficient powerful whatever) when the harvest of souls(god's children) is completed?


And so when this new director comes to us... its like he will have amnesia in a sense?


and what about the jesus's wife question?

[nasra1996]

Hello:

Woody wrote:

More likely is the population of the world simply learning the truth, most notably of course by the widespread dissemination of The Urantia Book. Folks will simply walk away from all of the institutional religions of ecclesiatical authority and begin practicing the true religion of personal experience with God that the UB and Jesus teaches.

There are some amazing truths in other holy books, take time to read them...!

adbox:

I call this war the end of the Ism's (like nationalism, capitolism, racism). But i dont think there will be mass spiritual conversion without some kind of fight.

I agree, I don't think it will be plain sailing either, has any other prophet in history ever been accepted by his people, i think not... Yes Monjoronson's reign will be a spiritual one, well of course.... but some groups of people are bound to reject him... it is written in the books/hadiths (that is, if Mahdi and Monjoronson are the same person) the muslims will reject him initially because he will establish a new set of beliefs... a renewal of all the faiths and they won't like that.

Love Sarah

[Geoff]

Hi Adbox,

Its hard to answer so many questions at once.

So whats up with the cross sybolism? I have heard scholars refer to the death of jesus christ as the death of the human ego. so you have a guy who claims to be one with god, but he is still victim to being a human. And he has to die and progress like every human. but while he was here he would paint an example on how to live from the heart, and for man to follow it. And christianity has told me that its because god lived as human, that he understands us and is able to empathise with us on the levels we need to be empathized with??????

The Urantia book says Michael, who incarnated as Jesus is a creation, and is not God. Other sources quote Jesus as saying he is not God, but human. I understand Jesus was 100% human, and that Michael had to go though this experience of living like one of his creations

Are you saying christ michael was a human once as well? Now he is an angel that exists in the higher relms?

Well we are saying Michael is billions of years old, and spent 36 years here as Jesus. Now he has gone back to being the "ruler" of our tiny universe of Nebadon, with its 1 millions planets.

Do angels claim to have free will? and if they do what makes them so much different than humans?

They do, and their spiritual progress is much slower, but they were created to do some particular function, and are far more evolved than we are when we were created.

and why are humans promised to be (more efficient powerful whatever) when the harvest of souls(god's children) is completed?

Not sure I go with this one, but I do accept there is probably no limit to our spiritual progress. One day we might each have our own universes to look after.

And so when this new director comes to us... its like he will have amnesia in a sense?

We probably not that bad, and he will have incredibly good contact with Father, because he will probably have a Thought Adjuster assigned, just as Jesus did. But he wont have the unbelievably powerful intellect he once had, he will be dumbed down.

and what about the jesus's wife question?

Nah, all rubbish IMHO. Jesus did care for Mary Magdalene, but he did not have time to start a family before he was crucified, and we for sure would know about that. Any speculation he survived crucifixion is in my opinion rather weak stuff.

love,
Geoff.

[adbox]

Hi Adbox,

Its hard to answer so many questions at once.

So whats up with the cross sybolism? I have heard scholars refer to the death of jesus christ as the death of the human ego. so you have a guy who claims to be one with god, but he is still victim to being a human. And he has to die and progress like every human. but while he was here he would paint an example on how to live from the heart, and for man to follow it. And christianity has told me that its because god lived as human, that he understands us and is able to empathise with us on the levels we need to be empathized with??????

The Urantia book says Michael, who incarnated as Jesus is a creation, and is not God. Other sources quote Jesus as saying he is not God, but human. I understand Jesus was 100% human, and that Michael had to go though this experience of living like one of his creations

Are you saying christ michael was a human once as well? Now he is an angel that exists in the higher relms?

Well we are saying Michael is billions of years old, and spent 36 years here as Jesus. Now he has gone back to being the "ruler" of our tiny universe of Nebadon, with its 1 millions planets.

Do angels claim to have free will? and if they do what makes them so much different than humans?

They do, and their spiritual progress is much slower, but they were created to do some particular function, and are far more evolved than we are when we were created.

and why are humans promised to be (more efficient powerful whatever) when the harvest of souls(god's children) is completed?

Not sure I go with this one, but I do accept there is probably no limit to our spiritual progress. One day we might each have our own universes to look after.

And so when this new director comes to us... its like he will have amnesia in a sense?

We probably not that bad, and he will have incredibly good contact with Father, because he will probably have a Thought Adjuster assigned, just as Jesus did. But he wont have the unbelievably powerful intellect he once had, he will be dumbed down.

and what about the jesus's wife question?

Nah, all rubbish IMHO. Jesus did care for Mary Magdalene, but he did not have time to start a family before he was crucified, and we for sure would know about that. Any speculation he survived crucifixion is in my opinion rather weak stuff.

love,
Geoff.

thank you for taking the time on me.

but as a christian, doesnt it make since to search out love, and start a family. from my own spiritual truths: a male first builds his heart with a woman, and completes it with his child. The man becomes the mother and remains the provider, while the woman becomes the provider, as well as the mother. Like the star of david symbolises the mystic unions of man(devided as male and female)

where as jesus was a prophet and the only true christian to ever walk this earth. His life was to serve as our example (for these times?). Was the sacred union of marriage, or love, not in his example.


yet christians arent all connected like jesus was. They werent born with the heart he had. From personal experience, love, has killed the worst parts in man, and opened the door for them. Learn to love a woman and you can learn to love god. It least thats how I came to god.

So what example does our true christian play? the womanless warrior, or the with woman warrior?

I know the catholic church will say that he could not be married to a woman because his marriage was solely to the people...

but as the one true christian example... it just seems right that he would have taken a woman. It would explain my journey towards god. And what it means to be a man.

above is the song of my soul. The message i spread. Is it false?

[Geoff]

Hi Adbox,

Was the sacred union of marriage, or love, not in his example.

Marriage is a human construct, not a Godly one.

Jesus loved all that he met, really loved them. Some like Mary Magdalene were privileged to be his apostles, and to spend 3 years with him. No doubt he loved them very greatly. But he was told to leave no seed, and I am sure he did not.

yet christians arent all connected like jesus was. They werent born with the heart he had.

I don't believe that is true. What is true, that Jesus was born with an unblemished soul, and you and I unfortunately do inherit the "sins of the father" in that our souls are exposed to lesss than perfect spiritual environments. But other than that significant difference, Jesus' mortal experience is just like yours or mine. In some ways maybe his was harder, as we have the internet, and also Lucifer has been banished. Jesus only had the Old Testament, and he managed to still figure out that stillness is critical.

love,
Geoff.

[nasra1996]

Hi Adbox'

Jesus wasn't a christian, he is an important figure in many faiths other than christianity...

I have always believed that he never married also, yes Mary magdelaine was a prominent figure in his life time, she was a preacher and an apostle i think so... but that doesn't mean they were married, he was still quite young, i am sure.

Geoff:

I understand Jesus was 100% human, and that Michael had to go though this experience of living like one of his creations

Why did he have to experience being human, and how can he be 100% human if he performed miracles.... also why would he die on the cross, for what reason..... thanks...

Love Sarah

[adbox]

Hi Adbox'

Jesus wasn't a christian, he is an important figure in many faiths other than christianity...


Love Sarah

ok. but he did defined the spiritual archtype that i call christian. That is heart over mind/ego. Being a father and a mother. Doing unto Others. Never defining truth outside of the context of which it applies. living as a son/daughter of god. With this as my goal, surpressing the ego is an almost impossible task. He was something special to master it.

And Geoff,

In your Modern vesion of ... i dont know what its called....spiritual life i guess... Satan has been taken care of already.

Thats so crazy. I think of all the people who will never include this truth you hold within their mind padigram. The idea hasnt been introduced to them, and they still exist within the dualistic battle between good and evil, in which they place satan as the front man for the dark agenda.

(11:11 as I type)

If this world was played out. Why are humans still being conditioned to think otherwise... and at such a curcial time period in the unfolding of things.

And even with satan thrown out. does he not still live in the hearts of man?
I mean... what was the moral lesson we should learn from his existance... and his roll in humanity?

How can we explain the dark agendas at work today? aka scientology. Ego dominated medias. and Utilitarianist/ psuedochristians who thinks ends justify means. thats dark stuff.

I respect the silence thing though. I understand it. Its obvious by my spastic writing that i havent come close to mastering it.

and good questions nasra1996

[adbox]

Hi Adbox,

Marriage is a human construct, not a Godly one.
.

I cant agree yet.

Genesis 2:24
For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother,
and shall cleave to his wife;
and they shall become one flesh.


It seems that it was in the plan. Like a path towards heavnly understanding.

[Geoff]

Hi Adbox,

Marriage is a human construct, not a Godly one.
.

I cant agree yet.

Genesis 2:24
For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother,
and shall cleave to his wife;
and they shall become one flesh.


It seems that it was in the plan. Like a path towards heavnly understanding.

Just because something is in the Bible, does not make it truth. It is Biblical interpretations that have led to the nonsense that gay folks are automatically displeasing to God, without taking any account of whether those gay folks are in a loving relationship.

Equally just because you are married, does NOT mean you cannot commit "sins of the flesh" within that marriage. Marriage is a convenient legal device for the protection of children and family unit. But it confers no protection from the Laws of God.

love,
Geoff.

[Geoff]

Hi Sarah,

Why did he have to experience being human, and how can he be 100% human if he performed miracles.... also why would he die on the cross, for what reason..... thanks...

You will find in the Urantia Book that before a Creator Son has completed his "training" he must seven times live as one of his creations. Jesus here was the seventh and final such "life".

Jesus did no more in the way of miracles than you or I can do, given that we reach the same level of connection with God. Some that are recorded as miracles never happened, others are falsely explained. Mostly he did many healings. His greatest miracle - that he raised himself from the dead - is a nonsense as it is explained. Jesus was however spiritually very powerful, and his morontia body was seen clearly in daylight, something that certainly does`not happen every day. But his mortal body was dead, and indeed was destroyed by the angels, so that it was not souvenired.

also why would he die on the cross, for what reason..

Father demonstrated that even Creator Sons are subject to human free will. A tough call.

love,
Geoff.

[adbox]

Hi Adbox,

Marriage is a human construct, not a Godly one.
.

I cant agree yet.

Genesis 2:24
For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother,
and shall cleave to his wife;
and they shall become one flesh.


It seems that it was in the plan. Like a path towards heavnly understanding.

Just because something is in the Bible, does not make it truth. It is Biblical interpretations that have led to the nonsense that gay folks are automatically displeasing to God, without taking any account of whether those gay folks are in a loving relationship.

Equally just because you are married, does NOT mean you cannot commit "sins of the flesh" within that marriage. Marriage is a convenient legal device for the protection of children and family unit. But it confers no protection from the Laws of God.

love,
Geoff.

i gotta stick with my gut. And the jews. I think Marriage is a holy and sacred life choice. blessed by god. I also think it is symbolic of the relationship between man(woman and man) and god.

Plus I dont think man reworded that part of the bible. I have faith in that suggestion.

And nothing against gays, god only knows the value of the bond. it sucks to see so many closed minded chrsitans react in fear like that. who knows.

[nasra1996]

Geoff:

Quote:
also why would he die on the cross, for what reason..


Father demonstrated that even Creator Sons are subject to human free will. A tough call.

Why did the people want to kill him though, i mean according to your readings, im still a learner, getting there slowly.... He was from a special bloodline of prophets wasn't he and related to King Solomon, David.. and so on...through Abrahams First son Ismael, not Isaac, some people (the hebrews') felt threatened by his presence because of his lineage....is that true..?

You will find in the Urantia Book that before a Creator Son has completed his "training" he must seven times live as one of his creations. Jesus here was the seventh and final such "life".

... wow never new that... who was he before .. all of the other times..?

Love Sarah xxx

[George]

Sarah writes:

<<< Why did the people want to kill him though >>>

He upset the business practices of the priestly cast... Levites?

God bless.....

[Daddy - O]

Hi Sarah,

... wow never new that... who was he before .. all of the other times..?

1st bestowal: An emergency Melchizadek Son
2nd: a primary Lanonandek Son (system sovereign)
3rd: a Material Son
4th: Seraphim, seraphic associate of a Trinity Teacher Son
5th: an ascendant pilgrim of mortal origin
6th: a morontia mortal of ascending status

Paper 119 of the Urantia Book: "On his Melchizedek bestowal he manifested the united will of the Father, Son, and Spirit, on his Lanonandek bestowal the will of the Father and the Son; on the Adamic bestowal he revealed the will of the Father and the Spirit, on the seraphic bestowal the will of the Son and the Spirit; on the Uversa mortal bestowal he portrayed the will of the Conjoint Actor, on the morontia mortal bestowal the will of the Eternal Son; and on the Urantia material bestowal [7th bestowal]he lived the will of the Universal Father, even as a mortal of flesh and blood."

love,
Daddy - O

[adbox]

also why would he die on the cross, for what reason..

Father demonstrated that even Creator Sons are subject to human free will. A tough call.

love,
Geoff.[/quote]

wow. that makes sense. bravo 7th jesus... so why does he want to be called morjo.... its so hard to remember. nothing like jesus christ. and the I thought the christ part was important.

I suspect that each incarnation of jesus has something to do with the 7 chakra centers of humans?

[Redshift]

Monjoronson isn't Jesus/Michael, he's someone else. Michael, as a Creator Son, has to experience the lives of his creations and only gains full sovereignty of his universe when his has incarnated as 7 of his creations. As Daddy-O pointed out, paper 119 of the Urantia Book explains it well:

When the Eternal Son bestows a Creator Son upon a projected local universe, that Creator Son assumes full responsibility for the completion, control, and composure of that new universe, including the solemn oath to the eternal Trinity not to assume full sovereignty of the new creation until his seven creature bestowals shall have been successfully completed and certified by the Ancients of Days of the superuniverse of jurisdiction. This obligation is assumed by every Michael Son who volunteers to go out from Paradise to engage in universe organization and creation.

The purpose of these creature incarnations is to enable such Creators to become wise, sympathetic, just, and understanding sovereigns. These divine Sons are innately just, but they become understandingly merciful as a result of these successive bestowal experiences; they are naturally merciful, but these experiences make them merciful in new and additional ways. These bestowals are the last steps in their education and training for the sublime tasks of ruling the local universes in divine righteousness and by just judgment.

Paper 119

Michael has already incarnated 7 times and deosn't need to incarnate again but he has promised to come back here at some point, although no-one, not even the celestials know when.

[Veronique]

You will find in the Urantia Book that before a Creator Son has completed his "training" he must seven times live as one of his creations. Jesus here was the seventh and final such "life".

Geoff,

I've read this incredibly long post and I'll admit, it's way over my head as I have not studied the religions of the world and this brings great insight in a nutshell. But I have to ask, you mentioned before (in a discussion regarding Sylvia Browne) that you don't believe in reincarnation. Yet here you state that according to the Urantia book, Jesus must 7 times live as one of his creations. Is this not "reincarnation"? I'm confused.