A Little Fellowship ...Anyone?

[Sandy]

Hi Eric,
I, too, struggle to get on the board...which is one reason I have been missing so much the past week or so. I don't have time to wait a minute or more while a board screen changes every single time. I have noticed we have had well over 2000 guests at these times, and I wonder if that is part of the problem. Most likely, many of them are spammers, but wouldn't it be lovely if they were readers?

I have had a similar problem you speak of with Christians I know. They seem to back off with the rhetoric when I tell them that I positively adore Jesus and I don't need a man-made structure or theology to love him, speak with him, or follow his teachings. I tell them I am a bridge builder and I look for common ground between people of all religions and spiritual groups. When you look closely with an open mind, you see Jesus's footprints in the lives of those who seemingly walk a different road... Fruits of the Spirit...do not come with a religious theology label.

Well, that's my opinion anyway.

I used to meet every week in our Australian home with a couple of Jehovah's Witnesses believers. In the beginning, they were all about what they believed. I listened politely, and as the weeks came and went, I began asking them questions about their lives and got to know and understand them. Over coffee and treats, friendship and respect for each other developed, where we could share our love for God without pressure to conform either way. I know secretly they longed to put a "religious rope" around my neck, but they loved me too much to push me away. And I will always love them for being my friends... Miss you, Fred (my 91-year-old friend on the Mansion Worlds now) ...and you too, Sandy, my courageous friend who at 92 remarried 6 years ago. Imagine if I hadn't opened my door to them...I wouldn't have even known what I was missing.
xxSandy

[Starwalker]

I came across this passage today and felt it was pertinent to our discussions in this thread.

Urantia Book 159:4 - The Talk with Nathaniel

And then went Jesus over to Abila, where Nathaniel and his associates labored. Nathaniel was much bothered by some of Jesus’ pronouncements which seemed to detract from the authority of the recognized Hebrew scriptures. Accordingly, on this night, after the usual period of questions and answers, Nathaniel took Jesus away from the others and asked: “Master, could you trust me to know the truth about the Scriptures? I observe that you teach us only a portion of the sacred writings – the best as I view it – and I infer that you reject the teachings of the rabbis to the effect that the words of the law are the very words of God, having been with God in heaven even before the times of Abraham and Moses. What is the truth about the Scriptures?” When Jesus heard the question of his bewildered apostle, he answered:

“Nathaniel, you have rightly judged; I do not regard the Scriptures as do the rabbis. I will talk with you about this matter on condition that you do not relate these things to your brethren, who are not all prepared to receive this teaching. The words of the law of Moses and the teachings of the Scriptures were not in existence before Abraham. Only in recent times have the Scriptures been gathered together as we now have them. While they contain the best of the higher thoughts and longings of the Jewish people, they also contain much that is far from being representative of the character and teachings of the Father in heaven; wherefore must I choose from among the better teachings those truths which are to be gleaned for the gospel of the kingdom.

“These writings are the work of men, some of them holy men, others not so holy. The teachings of these books represent the views and extent of enlightenment of the times in which they had their origin. As a revelation of truth, the last are more dependable than the first. The Scriptures are faulty and altogether human in origin, but mistake not, they do constitute the best collection of religious wisdom and spiritual truth to be found in all the world at this time.

“Many of these books were not written by the persons whose names they bear, but that in no way detracts from the value of the truths which they contain. If the story of Jonah should not be a fact, even if Jonah had never lived, still would the profound truth of this narrative, the love of God for Nineveh and the so-called heathen, be none the less precious in the eyes of all those who love their fellow men. The Scriptures are sacred because they present the thoughts and acts of men who were searching for God, and who in these writings left on record their highest concepts of righteousness, truth, and holiness. The Scriptures contain much that is true, very much, but in the light of your present teaching, you know that these writings also contain much that is misrepresentative of the Father in heaven, the loving God I have come to reveal to all the worlds.

“Nathaniel, never permit yourself for one moment to believe the Scripture records which tell you that the God of love directed your forefathers to go forth in battle to slay all their enemies – men, women, and children. Such records are the words of men, not very holy men, and they are not the word of God. The Scriptures always have, and always will, reflect the intellectual, moral, and spiritual status of those who create them. Have you not noted that the concepts of Yahweh grow in beauty and glory as the prophets make their records from Samuel to Isaiah? And you should remember that the Scriptures are intended for religious instruction and spiritual guidance. They are not the works of either historians or philosophers.

“The thing most deplorable is not merely this erroneous idea of the absolute perfection of the Scripture record and the infallibility of its teachings, but rather the confusing misinterpretation of these sacred writings by the tradition-enslaved scribes and Pharisees at Jerusalem. And now will they employ both the doctrine of the inspiration of the Scriptures and their misinterpretations thereof in their determined effort to withstand these newer teachings of the gospel of the kingdom. Nathaniel, never forget, the Father does not limit the revelation of truth to any one generation or to any one people. Many earnest seekers after the truth have been, and will continue to be, confused and disheartened by these doctrines of the perfection of the Scriptures.
“The authority of truth is the very spirit that indwells its living manifestations, and not the dead words of the less illuminated and supposedly inspired men of another generation. And even if these holy men of old lived inspired and spirit-filled lives, that does not mean that their words were similarly spiritually inspired. Today we make no record of the teachings of this gospel of the kingdom lest, when I have gone, you speedily become divided up into sundry groups of truth contenders as a result of the diversity of your interpretation of my teachings. For this generation it is best that we live these truths while we shun the making of records.
“Mark you well my words, Nathaniel, nothing which human nature has touched can be regarded as infallible. Through the mind of man divine truth may indeed shine forth, but always of relative purity and partial divinity. The creature may crave infallibility, but only the Creators possess it.

“But the greatest error of the teaching about the Scriptures is the doctrine of their being sealed books of mystery and wisdom which only the wise minds of the nation dare to interpret. The revelations of divine truth are not sealed except by human ignorance, bigotry, and narrow-minded intolerance. The light of the Scriptures is only dimmed by prejudice and darkened by superstition. A false fear of sacredness has prevented religion from being safeguarded by common sense. The fear of the authority of the sacred writings of the past effectively prevents the honest souls of today from accepting the new light of the gospel, the light which these very God-knowing men of another generation so intensely longed to see.
“But the saddest feature of all is the fact that some of the teachers of the sanctity of this traditionalism know this very truth. They more or less fully understand these limitations of Scripture, but they are moral cowards, intellectually dishonest. They know the truth regarding the sacred writings, but they prefer to withhold such disturbing facts from the people. And thus do they pervert and distort the Scriptures, making them the guide to slavish details of the daily life and an authority in things nonspiritual instead of appealing to the sacred writings as the repository of the moral wisdom, religious inspiration, and the spiritual teaching of the God-knowing men of other generations.”

Nathaniel was enlightened, and shocked, by the Master’s pronouncement. He long pondered this talk in the depths of his soul, but he told no man concerning this conference until after Jesus’ ascension; and even then he feared to impart the full story of the Master’s instruction.

[happyrain]

Thanks Jon,

What speaks to me in all of this, is the highlighting of the partnership with a Living Spirit. As it is said, the scriptures of old were a chronicle of the evolving man and his understanding of that relationship.

The fact that the relationship is Alive- that it is something Evolving, means what was written is not all that is. There is still more to discover, even in regards to our human potential.

Unfortunately this scares many who cling to old scripture- so why do they(WE) cling? Because it is something close to their Hearts, it is one of the closest explanations they have when describing the personal relationship with God.

It is considered something worthy of veneration and study, and like our ways of old, it becomes ritualized and dogmatized. It is a paradox that only a calm and loving understanding may be able to untangle.

On the one hand, we've endured fear and chastisement from those who cling to only one way of belief. On the other, they make sacred and living a special truth that is without a doubt a great admonition of God.

And all the meanwhile, it is made evident that all peoples as motivated by something deeper than the superficial idea of themselves are striving towards a progression.

So I again say, what is most important is to acknowledge the relationship with a Living Spirit. Christ says we will go on and accomplish even greater things than he while human incarnate...

This is not a call to prideful arrogance, it is a revelation that we continue onward towards Eternity and therefore can not be bound by archival expressions- no matter how glorious they may be, it can never be the totality of Truth or the fulfillment of Wonder. That is reserved for the Living, and continuation of the Divine Partnership.

As depressing as it can be to feel the unconscious twisting of ones limited understanding, it is also a beautiful secret of human expression. The secret and beauty is not in the wrestling and unconscious drive towards submission but in the desire to make sacred and express. To reach within, the eternal reality, and showcase a glimpse of it in our way of Being.

When you look at the evolution of the human race on a timeline, even in the dark ages, that expression becomes something to admire.

And even now, though I share my disappointments, I am made whole again by these insights. I believe it is possible to overcome a fear or doubt projected our way- even a hostile gesture... And in this effort to seek out and realize our relationship with the Living Spirit, we may experience a transcendental phenomenon the scriptures of old have failed to disseminate.

...That is because it is not the responsibility of what gets written to do so. It is solely the responsibility of the Living Spirit. Yes, I suppose even now I can pay respect to those who wish to express themselves that which is closest to their Heart, even if I find disagreements.

This is why the spirit of Universal Sufism seeks to focus on what Unites us rather than divide us.

[happyrain]

I just want to report that I had a fellowship this morning with an old friend- some of the worry I shared here was in regards to his views but nothing negative came about. It was all positive, we shed tears together- laughed together. We held hands and prayed... And when it came to attempting to share my mystic or philosophical view- I used a lot of caution- and instead just tried to emphasis the profound reality of a "Living Spirit" and leaned in on his beliefs of an eternal partnership with God.

By the end of it a young woman sitting some ways away from us was so impressed she asked my friend if he was a preacher and they had an exchange that I would call the fruits of the living spirit. We may all get together again on zoom and maybe even get together in person.

He texted me something just now that kind of touches up on my concerns shared in just a few post earlier-
He said, "Proverbs 27:17 just came to mind"

Check it out!

[Sandy]

"As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another." Proverbs 27:17


xxSandy

[happyrain]

Hello friends. For anyone interested please, humor me with your own reply- let's try not to use AI for this one.

What does it mean, "Gods Favor?"

Is it something we can "keep?" Something to hold on to?

For me, I recognize the transcendental emotion that occurs when I feel immersed in Gods presence. Perhaps this is a deep form of Love. I might call that Gods Favor.

And at times, I think we pull ourselves away from it- even when we truly wish not to. At other times, we willingly rebel against what we think we know to be the assured way to a deeper revelation of Love. But is the, "assured way" really so determined?

Well, this thought came out of no where- I'm watching, "The Chosen" on Amazon. It's a great series, I am trying harder to understand what it's like to be God incarnate come to Earth and to witness his creation, his children.

[Sandy]

Hi Eric,

My first thought was, I want clarity on the word "favor"... so...

noun
1.
approval, support, or liking for someone or something.

"the legislation is viewed with favor"

2.
an act of kindness beyond what is due or usual.

"I've come to ask you a favor"

verb
1.
feel or show approval or preference for.
"slashing public spending is a policy that few politicians favor"

2.
(often used in polite requests) give someone (something that they want).
"please favor me with an answer"

I believe you are considering the noun meaning of the word favor. right?

I believe we always have God's favor. We are God's children, and God, as a perfect parent, always wants to connect, support, guide, and encourage Her children. God also knows our thoughts, actions, and imperfections as well as our strengths, desires, and our disappointments with ourselves and others...so the "favor," I believe, is always there for us.
If there is a break, a withdrawal, it is most likely of our own making...

It isn't easy being human. Our world is so complicated. We are bombarded with shoulds and should n'ts even if we know the shoulds and should n'ts can mess us up royally... upend us in regards to self-love and acceptance.
I've been talking with Kim about "self-love". It is probably one of the most difficult avenues of love for us to master. And the lack of which can create all kinds of difficulties in our lives.

I am thinking that maybe, just maybe, the self-love thing can cause us to withdraw from God's emmersive love and move into areas of forgetfulness (of a sort). Life and spirit acceptance, and the journey to God, is different for everyone. We are all walking, riding, flying back to the Creator of all in ways that feel acceptable to us. Unfortunately, life is fraught with so much that is disagreeable. It is hazardous for us to retain this sense of God's favor (noun) if we step away from it for any length of time...we become wrapped in a haze of forgetfulness...And God's favor becomes like a memory..a beautiful, desirous memory... like a phantom, a whisper of something precious.
The allure of the world's materialism or its multitudes of gratuitous entertainment speaks to us, "for a small price each month you can enjoy an amazing array of movies, shows, sports events, documentaries, and games...
Yep, I hear that siren's call and spiritual apathy awaits...
God never withdraws His favor. It is always on our end.

We all know what we can do to change this... For those struggling, we need to ask ourselves, why? And really listen to what comes up.
Have faith, God is always there for us.

Sorry, Eric, I went off again on one of those silly tangents. This is in no way a reflection of you or any person. It just is my flow of thought this morning.

And at times, I think we pull ourselves away from it- even when we truly wish not to. At other times, we willingly rebel against what we think we know to be the assured way to a deeper revelation of Love. But is the, "assured way" really so determined?

Is there an "assured way"? I do not believe there is any way that is assured for us in mortal form. As we grow spiritually here, we are ready for higher spiritual truths of understanding... something more assured, perhaps. We cannot know God truth as a mortal, any more than we stand before the blinding presence that is God. Imagine wrapped in mortal form, standing before a blazing star, and expect to survive.
The energy, the matter that the star is made from, comes from the very essence that is God. God is so much more than we can ever imagine. With a mere thought, She upholds everything that is. So it is my view that any path we follow with love on this planet will lead us onwards...So, after all that rambling, there is, in my opinion, no one assured path of favor here on this physical planet filled with physical beings. It is for us to decide and to reject...to keep searching for God and where that leads.

Sorry...I ramble...I am simple and keep things relatively simple...But I have an eternity in multiple forms to grow closer to God after I walk through death's door. I'm just going to enjoy the moment of being human and do the best I can where God's will is concerned and quit worrying about getting zapped for not getting everything right. (Mom's minister was here yesterday...long story LOL)
xxSandy

[happyrain]

Hi Sandy, I'm not sure what I meant when I said, "Gods Favor" or even if there is such a thing. You don't have to apologize for anything- I asked for participation. And I asked for it form real, genuine personalities. So, if anything I should thank you for contributing your loving thoughts. I didn't get to see you this morning in video call so this is a perfect remedy to the fellowship I wished to share with you- thank you.

When I say I question if there is such a thing, I do not mean to say I am questioning whether God loves us. My personal experience shows me God loves us. All of us.

I am questioning from a place that creates biases in the human experience. Is it not true the apostles clamored over who Jesus might have preferred over the other? Likewise, is it silly to think we can do anything to earn Gods Favor... Or is it noble... ?

These are just questions, with no real expectation. I have to sit with these questions my self and make my appropriate decisions after I feel the matters in my heart and mind.

I do believe it goes back to the individuals relationship with God, learning through the unique experiences they were born into and find themselves having to navigate. From that point of view, all lessons are also uniquely ministered and learning to tune within might mean walking a different path than another.

Something unique to our human experience... I think, is that we all have the power to choose. To choose what serves us, what does not. To choose to go down a path only to realize it was not what truly made us happy. And we do struggle, so self love is definitely a critical component- thank you for that reminder.

I am happy you are speaking with Kim, please send her my regards. Let her know I miss her presence here.

Have you seen the Chosen? It's done pretty well! In case you ever need something to watch.

[happyrain]

Enjoying my meal and watching more of the Chosen- Phillip is helping Matthew understand the nature of God. Matthew wants to study Torah and Phillip ask him to learn this verse: "in heaven you are there, in the depths of my bed you are there" Psalms 139.

Phillip tells Matthew it doesn't matter how educated you are, how much more learning you acquire- whatever you do- God is always there. Always there with you, Alive... Present.

And so, there may be no such thing as Gods Favor. God is Love. Love is Alive. We strive for more of Gods Love, we pray to feel the expansive nature of Gods Love. We ask to reach new depths and widths of Love. But No matter what state we are in, God as Love is always present.


I understand, Sandy, that it may not be right to compare our sense of understanding to Gods- where it is taught in the UB that our human lives are just a small snippet of an eternal career... Our capacities as human beings are limited, so our reasoning may be short sighted. It's quite an equal playground for all of us- no matter how high or low one appears... God loves all his children, and it is up to the child whether or not they wish to turn in towards this Love.

To realize the relationship is Present... In All Ways, Living. If we feel we are lacking favor, it is because we have lost sight of God as present in our lives. But He has never left...