Confirmation Bias: Keep an accurate record

[Shaku55]

CB,

What about all those 777's I see in Vegas? Now those HAVE to mean something! <grin>

We can no more prove 11:11 is a spiritual prompt than you can disprove it as confirmation bias. And surely not every person who notices number sequences is being called by angels. Some may have OCD, autism, gambling problems, or a broken clock. Or confirmation bias and any combination of the other issues. But lots of people, especially many I've met here, honestly believe it's something deeper than a wikipedia blurb about pop psychology. I can't tell you what it is, and I've given it serious thought for many years. So I'm surprised that you spring onto the scene so driven and certain with your own answers.

But I can tell you this, regardless of what I believe, I don't frequent opposing view forums and start "friendly debates". So many people lead good lives having a spiritual belief of any kind, that I find a lot of peace in empowering faith rather than questioning theirs, with the exception of testing and questioning my own faith.

I truly hope your beliefs become personal enough that you don't feel the need to convince anyone else.

Be well.

[ConfirmationBias]

As a statistician, the odds are 1-in-7.8, and if you take what happened to you,

Thats not the stats on waking ONCE a night, and seeing those numbers, THREE NIGHTS IN A ROW. At that time, I did not wake at night. Try the same idea with George's experience of waking night after night, and always at 11:11PM. THESE THINGS ARE NOT STATISTICALLY LIKELY. As a matter of fact, that sequence has never happened to me again, not in ? not sure, seven, eight years.

The stats I did WERE for THREE NIGHTS IN A ROW, and given random wakening every night, that would occur THREE NIGHTS in EACH YEAR.

This is entirely common. Given Benford's, Baaden, Sleep cycle learning and the body clock, all this is absolutely entirely likely and so common. What the argument now is, will you admit to it being a common and ordinary occurance, I've stated that this happens to EVERYONE, ALL THE TIME, and asked opinion, but nobody has replied to that. Please feel free!

By the way, you seem to have not noticed the most important thing I said. We do not watch clocks. If you do, discard ALL of your data. Try NOT watching clocks. Heck, remove all clocks from your life.

Stop talking about watching clocks. I didn't bring this up, it is a strawman argument, I never imagined or supposed people are watching clocks. Your brain takes events and gives them significance when they fit a pattern, end of story.

And regarding that number plate, we have a heck of a lot of different format allowed number plates in NSW. That black 1111 is a rare plate. But there is still only one car with that number. Yes there is a car with 111, and a car with 11, maybe even a car with 11111

It doesn't matter, your brain just makes you feel like it is significant because it fits a pattern.

But I see we are actually wasting our time here. If you want to believe there is no external cause, so be it.

None of you have brought up anything beyond "look I saw this number" - my question is, how do you go from the normal feeling of seeing 11:11 over and over, which we all agree that EVERYONE sees, it isn't special to see, everyone sees it, and going from that to "angels". Can someone explain how you go from this normal feeling that the brain provides you with to concluding angels?

You see. The feeling is normal. Everyone sees 11:11, all the time - do you agree with that?

It has nothing to do with belief, because your beliefs are not in question, I am questioning that seeing numbers over and over is entirely normal and it happens to everyone, I am not arguing beliefs or talking about watching clocks.

[sammy]

Dear CB,

This is entirely common. Given Benford's, Baaden, Sleep cycle learning and the body clock, all this is absolutely entirely likely and so common. What the argument now is, will you admit to it being a common and ordinary occurance, I've stated that this happens to EVERYONE, ALL THE TIME, and asked opinion, but nobody has replied to that. Please feel free!

You see. The feeling is normal. Everyone sees 11:11, all the time - do you agree with that?

I actually responded to your question in an earlier response, and I know "True" did as well. You may want to go back and take a look, I don't recall if others spoke to this particular question or not.

None of you have brought up anything beyond "look I saw this number" - my question is, how do you go from the normal feeling of seeing 11:11 over and over, which we all agree that EVERYONE sees, it isn't special to see, everyone sees it, and going from that to "angels". Can someone explain how you go from this normal feeling that the brain provides you with to concluding angels?

This is where synchronicity comes into play, and meditation if you are so inclined...also, I'll refer you back to "True" and her personal experience.

As for the rest, it appears our board members are tiring of this amicable discussion. So I will ask you to ponder once again your intent. Are you here to grow spiritually or are you here to attempt others to join you in your philosophy?

LOVE!!!!
Sammy

[ConfirmationBias]

And surely not every person who notices number sequences is being called by angels.

Why would you say that? I think if it is angels, then they are calling everyone, all the time - so everyone is getting called, every day, all the time, and everyone is seeing these numbers. Don't you agree?

honestly believe it's something deeper than a wikipedia blurb about pop psychology. I can't tell you what it is, and I've given it serious thought for many years. So I'm surprised that you spring onto the scene so driven and certain with your own answers.

You can't dishonestly believe something therefore you can't honestly believe it. You believe it or not. Pop is a superfluous phrasing here. This isn't a scene and I am not springing, I was actually looking for a mention for the 11th hour / 11th day for Remembrance Day - since unix time went all 1's a while back, I find arbitrary time / date patterns funny, so I was looking to see what some people might have been writing. I found this because 11:11 was in my search, and I realised that there was a group of people who, like me, no, like everyone sees the same time over and over, a totally normal thing, but have a personality type to attribute it to something unknown. Interesting I thought, I would like to see how a debate could go.

It starts with some overt "this will not last" which I accept because all internet forums go on historic record, and idiots write things all over. Then it jumps between back stories and some strawman arguments (clock watching and some other argument I didn't make was also refuted, can't recall.

So my next tack is that obviously people on here think the message is special to them, and that not everyone can see this, an implication is that if it happens to you, you have powers. Well, I see 11:11, 14:14, 15:15, 16:16, 22:22, 00:00 night on every day, and my clock is on the oven in the kitchen, and I only go there to open the fridge. So, qualified as I am in that a ten-googlplex-to-one chance happens every hour to me, I can categorically say that this happens and has no significant meaning.

I truly hope your beliefs become personal enough that you don't feel the need to convince anyone else.

I am not trying to convince anyone, but it is simple that this happens to everyone, that is the point I am making, every single person living with a digital clock that is. The second thing is, I notice "Thing For Sale(TM)", which means someone is profiting (and not a lot I'd imagine, but then again, even a few hundred dollars is enough to be protective of) from the "uneasy sense" that people experience, and the need to think that this is a special occurrence and significant (because their brains say "hey this is significant").

So that is my honest statement there - this happens to everyone, but I think most people here will be reticent to admit that, and will deny it, that it isn't special to see these numbers, and the process is a normal one. On top of that, it is a common, uneasy, weird sense that people feel that someone could make money from.

Of course, I do find the whole "belief love faith" to be intriguing! I would LOVE to meet you all in a group and talk.

[ConfirmationBias]

As for the rest, it appears our board members are tiring of this amicable discussion. So I will ask you to ponder once again your intent. Are you here to grow spiritually or are you here to attempt others to join you in your philosophy?

LOVE!!!!
Sammy

Hi Sammy, I am here to get people to talk about the common occurrence, since you all talk about 11:11, I think it is fair for a simple discussion, and if someone already answered, sorry - but the question I have is:

This happens to everyone, do we agree on that?

[sammy]

I would imagine everybody sees 11:11 from time to time, but not all pay attention or take note of it.

LOVE!!!!
Sammy

[Sandy]

Dear Confirmationbias,

With all due respect, why are you here? I need to ask this up front because it seems you do not experience the spiritual side which some of us have been trying to explain. It is difficult under the best of circumstance to explain this to another person but even more so I expect in a situation when one fears that every word spoken will be challenged and belittled. But I will try even though it has proven fruitless in the past when trying to explain these things to someone else on a differing life path.

It is like trying to explain prayer, spiritual healing, miracles... things I know exist and have been the recipient at times.. yet to explain how they come about what effect they have on the physical and non physical areas of the body...words cannot do it justice. They can't. They leave you with an unshakable faith... and gratitude... a joy that there is absolute wonder left in the universe...a knowing that all things are possible...

I think for many of us who see the number prompts it goes way more than numbers. But of course, I can't speak for anybody else. So I will explain it from my own point of view and from one of my experiences...my first day. I came here as a Urantia Book reader years ago because I was very interested in Midwayers who are spoken of in that book. I wanted to know more. At that time, I wasn't seeing number prompts. So I was amazed at all these experiences.... but I didn't see the numbers back then. Weeks went by and I still didn't see the numbers and I wondered, "Heck! What was wrong with me! Why do they not want to prompt me!"... Then one Saturday I started seeing a particular number over and over and over again. No, it wasn't 11:11. something I couldn't miss... my birthday...7:11 for whatever you want to call it,.. I saw it... and this had never happened to me before. I even saw it in the extra information that came along with the movie, 'The Village.'that evening...in one of the actress'es randomly chosen diary entries that was shown. A short time later as I lay quietly half asleep on the couch, I suddenly heard a very loud, "HAPPY BIRTHDAY!" I jumped up, but no one was there. And I heard a woman laugh. I contemplated in amazement what had transpired as I made ready for bed, turning out my aquarium light and as usual sadly examining the plight of my large yellow female parrot fish who had been suffering with a swollen(clogged) and infected egg layer(scientific term ) for several months. I had tried every medicine possible to try to correct the problem but nothing helped. As always, I wished she could feel better. The next morning when I turned on the aquarium light to my surprise a completely healthy fish greeted me. There was no sign of the horrible problem of the night before. She was completely healed!

People can doubt the reality of what some of us practice...what some of us believe...and yet do you truly think it makes any difference when you have experienced the wonder behind the numbers...seen or heard a Midwayer or felt their being next to you, been gently lifted off your chair in meditation or transported in some spiritual fashion to a foregn planet and tasted the wate, been warned by a voice to pull over just seconds before a deadly accident? No probably not...so I ask you in all kindness to cease and desist. You are welcomed to join us as an individual who has a sincere desire to know more but I am sorry to say we will not continue to allow you to "preach to us." Our purpose in this place is to assist people who wish to explore their spiritual roots and learn more about our worlds place in the cosmos. It is the hope of all of us, and our celestial friends that by learning more, always edging closer to our Higher Selves, our God within, that we can be at peace and this peace will transform us first on the inside and then translate to those we interact with on the outside, eventually years and generations down the road creating a world to be proud of. In all honesty, confirmationbias, it isn't about the numbers at all... it is about learning to love unconditionally.

I thank you for sharing your own beliefs. May blessing follow your every step in life.
Love,
Sandy

[Shaku55]

CB,

It was a pleasure reading the book you crafted to respond to my few sentences. Thank you for taking the time to share. If we had a gift shop I would request that you receive a T-shirt, but we don't.

[Shaku55]

Now I understand why I enjoyed reading that so much, you kept on quoting me!

I like to be quoted. Thank you again!

[True]

ConfirmationBias

To answer your question,

NO it does not happen to everyone, although I think it can happen to anyone! I don’t know anyone in my personal life who has or who is experiencing number prompts other than me.

Also you said- “So my next tack is that obviously people on here think the message is special to them, and that not everyone can see this, an implication is that if it happens to you, you have powers. Well, I see 11:11, 14:14, 15:15, 16:16, 22:22, 00:00 night on every day, and my clock is on the oven in the kitchen, and I only go there to open the fridge. So, qualified as I am in that a ten-googlplex-to-one chance happens every hour to me, I can categorically say that this happens and has no significant meaning”

None of us think we have powers because this happens to us. I do believe that we can become more empowered by opening up ourselves to the higher power.
I also think because you are experiencing these number prompts and you have no idea what they mean , you are fighting against them instead of trying to figure out what is being pointed out to you by a higher source in the universe.

When I came here I was a frantic mess and very confused. After taking a moment to learn what the number prompts meant I can say for ME they ring true.

I don’t know if you believe in God or some form of a higher power, but if you do you should pray about the number prompts you are receiving and see what you get from your prayers.

Also you can check out Doreen Virtue angel numbers and see if you start to get a better picture of why you receive certain numbers at certain phases in your life.
I hope this helped.

[MasterOfMyself]

Could you briefly summarize how it was invalidated? Was it based upon one example or longstanding research of multiple claims? I don't have a vested interest either way. I'm just curious. I have only a passing interest in the subject and my investigations have been limited so I'm not qualified to debate.

He was doing the usual "past life" regression stuff. A bit more contentious than others, cause he was also using psychotic drugs in his research. Had a "patient" that recalled a "past life" very vividly. She eventually researched this data, and was able to "prove" who it was. A young man who was killed at a young age. Since he died childless, the memory could not have been cellular, or in her dna. But it was a relative, curiously. Which suggested to me it was quite likely a memory from an adjacent spirit entity, one who was interested in her.

take care,
Geoff

Interesting.

I was thinking more along the lines of people who had very abrupt changes in their personal preferences (habits, favorite foods, music etc.) immediately after receiving an organ transplant. The timing strongly suggests a causal link. These changes have been documented as being quite extreme and many investigated instances have been linked to the tendencies of the organ donor.


( link gone )

Cellular Memory in Organ Transplants

..Candace Pert, author of Molecules of Emotion: Why You Feel the Way You Feel, says, "Memories are stored not only in the brain, but in a psychosomatic network extending into the body . . . all the way out along pathways to internal organs and the very surface of our skin." After having discovered neuropeptides in all body tissues, Pert suggests that through cellular receptors, thoughts or memories may remain unconscious or can become conscious-raising the possibility of physiological connections between memories, organs and the mind.

University of Arizona scientists and co-authors of The Living Energy Universe, Gary Schwartz, PhD, and Linda Russek, PhD, propose the universal living memory hypothesis in which they believe that "all systems stored energy dynamically . . . and this information continued as a living, evolving system after the physical structure had deconstructed." Schwartz and Russek believe this may explain how the information and energy from the donor's tissue can be present, consciously or unconsciously, in the recipient.

Paul Pearsall, MD, a psychoneuroimmunologist and author of The Heart's Code, has researched the transference of memories through organ transplantation. After interviewing nearly 150 heart and other organ transplant recipients, Pearsall proposes the idea that cells of living tissue have the capacity to remember.

Together with Schwartz and Russek, Pearsall conducted a study, published in the Spring 2002 issue of the Journal of Near-Death Studies, entitled, "Changes in Heart Transplant Recipients That Parallel the Personalities of Their Donors." The study consisted of open-ended interviews with 10 heart or heart-lung transplant recipients, their families or friends and the donor's families or friends. The researchers reported striking parallels in each of the cases. The following is a sampling of some these.

In one case, an 18-year-old boy who wrote poetry, played music and composed songs, was killed in an automobile accident. A year after he died his parents came across an audiotape of a song he had written, entitled, "Danny, My Heart is Yours," which was about how he "felt he was destined to die and give his heart to someone." The donor recipient "Danny" of his heart, was an 18-year-old girl, named Danielle. When she met the donor's parents, they played some of his music and she, despite never having heard the song, was able to complete the phrases.

In another case, a seven-month-old boy received a heart from a 16-month-old boy who had drowned. The donor had a mild form of cerebral palsy mostly on the left side. The recipient, who did not display such symptoms prior to the transplant, developed the same stiffness and shaking on the left side.

A 47-year-old Caucasian male received a heart from a 17-year-old African-American male. The recipient was surprised by his new-found love of classical music. What he discovered later was that the donor, who loved classical music and played the violin, had died in a drive-by shooting, clutching his violin case to his chest.

A 29-year-old lesbian and a fast food junkie received a heart from a 19-year-old woman vegetarian who was "man crazy." The recipient reported after her operation that meat made her sick and she was no longer attracted to women. If fact, she became engaged to marry a man.

A 47-year-old man received a heart from a 14-year-old girl gymnast who had problems with eating disorders. After the transplant, the recipient and his family reported his tendency to be nauseated after eating, a childlike exuberance and a little girl's giggle.

Aside from those included in the study, there are other transplant recipients whose stories are worth mentioning, such as Claire Sylvia, a woman who received a heart-lung transplant. In her book entitled, A Change of Heart: A Memoir, Ms. Sylvia describes her own journey from being a healthy, active dancer to becoming ill and eventually needing a heart transplant. After the operation, she reported peculiar changes like cravings for beer and chicken nuggets, neither of which she had a taste for prior to the transplant. She later discovered that these were favorites of her donor. She even learned that her donor had chicken nuggets in his jacket pocket when he died in a motorcycle accident.

[Shaku55]

This may seem off topic, but I think everyone in this thread should read this post, it's good food for thought.

The Cyber Narcissist

Written by Sam Vaknin

To the narcissist, the Internet is an alluring and irresistible combination of playground and hunting grounds, the gathering place of numerous potential sources of narcissistic supply, a world where false identities are the norm and mind games the bon ton. And it is beyond the reach of the law, the pale of social norms, the strictures of civilized conduct.

The somatic finds cyber-sex and cyber-relationships aplenty. The cerebral claims false accomplishments, fake skills, erudition and talents. Both, if minimally communicative, end up at the instantly gratifying epicenter of a cult of fans, followers, stalkers, erotomaniacs, denigrators, and plain nuts. The constant attention and attendant quasi-celebrity feed and sustain their grandiose fantasies and inflated self-image.

The Internet is an extension of the real-life Narcissistic Pathological Space but without its risks, injuries, and disappointments. In the virtual universe of the Web, the narcissist vanishes and reappears with ease, often adopting a myriad aliases and nicknames. He (or she) can thus fend off criticism, abuse, disagreement, and disapproval effectively and in real time - and, simultaneously, preserve the precarious balance of his infantile personality. Narcissists are, therefore, prone to Internet addiction.
The positive characteristics of the Net are largely lost on the narcissist. He is not keen on expanding his horizons, fostering true relationships, or getting in real contact with other people. The narcissist is forever the provincial because he filters everything through the narrow lens of his addiction. He measures others - and idealizes or devalues them - according to one criterion only: how useful they might be as sources of narcissistic supply.

The Internet is an egalitarian medium where people are judged by the consistency and quality of their contributions rather than by the content or bombast of their claims. But the narcissist is driven to distracting discomfiture by a lack of clear and commonly accepted hierarchy (with himself at the pinnacle). He fervently and aggressively tries to impose the "natural order" - either by monopolizing the interaction or, if that fails, by becoming a major disruptive influence.

But the Internet may also be the closest many narcissists get to psychodynamic therapy. Because it is still largely text-based, the Web is populated by disembodied entities. By interacting with these intermittent, unpredictable, ultimately unknowable, ephemeral, and ethereal voices - the narcissist is compelled to project unto them his own experiences, fears, hopes, and prejudices.

Transference (and counter-transference) are quite common on the Net and the narcissist's defence mechanisms - notably projection and projective identification - are frequently aroused. The therapeutic process is set in motion by the - unbridled, uncensored, and brutally honest - reactions to the narcissist's repertory of antics, pretensions, delusions, and fantasies.

The narcissist - ever the intimidating bully - is not accustomed to such resistance. Initially, it may heighten and sharpen his paranoia and lead him to compensate by extending and deepening his grandiosity. Some narcissists withdraw altogether, reverting to the schizoid posture. Others become openly antisocial and seek to subvert, sabotage, and destroy the online sources of their frustration. A few retreat and confine themselves to the company of adoring sycophants and unquestioning groupies.

But a long exposure to the culture of the Net - irreverent, skeptical, and populist - usually exerts a beneficial effect even on the staunchest and most rigid narcissist. Far less convinced of his own superiority and infallibility, the online narcissist mellows and begins - hesitantly - to listen to others and to collaborate with them.

Copyright (c) 1999 - 2009, HealthyPlace.com, Inc. All rights reserved

It is better the devil you know! And it's comforting that in some way forum discussions are therapeutic to many different personality types.

[Geoff]

I am now locking this thread. The topic has been worked to death, CB has not moved an inch, neither have we.