Has anyone heard of the Divine Cross and Celestial Cross r/o

[Joy Abounds Now]

stitch, as in needlepoint or sign.

It looks like a circle with a simple cross in the middle, which represents the Divine Cross, I assume. The blank four corners represent the Celestial Cross. A friend had an old table cloth with this stitch on it and then saw something on a TV documentary about the same stitch. I haven't done any research yet, just wondering if anyone here had any info?

[Joy Abounds Now]

This is not a 'religous' post, rather from what a gathered from my friend who told me about it, which was little, was it was something about end times and a sign pointing to something from the stars.

I'm a little paranoid that you all may think I am a religous nut after my first post, seriously I am a spiritual seeker trying to put together all the information I receive.

[Geoff]

Well I am not sure if its the same thing, but Jesus' sign is a set of concentric circles, often in blue and white.

love,
Geoff

[Daddy - O]

Hi Joy,

Your description sounds similar to that of the Celtic Cross. Also, check out this link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_cross is that similar to what you are talking about?

love,
Daddy - O

[Joy Abounds Now]

Daddy-O,

Thanks, your link took me to this one:

http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/29/291.html

Interesting to see the 29 show up, perhaps that might be one of my personal numbers. This bit of info is also interesting and maybe why I am drawn to it, " Combining the cross and the circle, it is the simplest conceivable representation of the union of opposed polarities in the Western world." Since I am involved in a very difficult relationship with someone. Thanks again.

Geoff ~ I am not familiar with what you are referring to, can you explain further or give a link? Thanks in advance.

Love ~ Jan

Joy is a net of Love by which you can catch souls. ~ Mother Teresa

[Joy Abounds Now]

This is also an inspiring piece from the 2nd link from my post just above. Found in the last sentence on the page, hmmmm.

In the US, British, Swedish and French hobo sign systems we find that (as well as and ) means here you will find food, work, and money, or here live generous people.

I like the sound of that very much.

[Geoff]

Geoff ~ I am not familiar with what you are referring to, can you explain further or give a link? Thanks in advance.

Love ~ Jan

Joy is a net of Love by which you can catch souls. ~ Mother Teresa

Dear Joy,

This is from the Urantia Book, and its quite likely that you would not be keen on that book at this time. That is just a guess, because if you choose to see what critics say, it may be that concerns you at this time. But many of us value that book greatly. But no book is without error.


One symbol described in The Urantia Book consists of three concentric blue circles on a white background. The circles are said to have symbolized several trinity associations in the history of humankind. The authors of The Urantia Book indicate its revealed meaning as being "the infinity, eternity, and universality of the Paradise Trinity of divine maintenance and direction."

love,
Geoff.

[Joy Abounds Now]

Thank you Geoff ~ I have read page 77 of The Urantia Book because of a post here. I am still not sure what to think but I am interested and will investigate it further. Michelzideck fascinated me because he shows up in the Bible out of no where as a high priest, which is somewhat a mystery.

I am happy to hear there is belief in Jesus in it, and He is part of the Trinity. Elohim, which is the name for the Trinity, is a word I like to use often. Your symbol had nothing to do with the original question I posted but I am glad you answered and I am confident it is information I can use.

Thanks again ~ Jan

[Geoff]

I am happy to hear there is belief in Jesus in it, and He is part of the Trinity.

Hmm. Well this is how it stands. The Urantia Book explains that Jesus is not part of the Prime Source. However, the role that he does have, even though he is a created being, is one of creator of our universe, and that this universe will in time contain 1,000 inhabited planets, and Jesus/Michael will have been responsible, along with his consort, for creating the beings in it. Our souls however are created by the Prime Source. The Prime Source is described as being a trinity, so that may satisfy you. As also the Urantia book teaches that Jesus' blood does not save any of us. So that's another big challenge for an othodox Christian.

love,
Geoff.

[George]

Joy writes,

I have read page 77 of The Urantia Book because of a post here.

Paper 77 and paper 114 in parts deal with those that are prompting you.

http://www.urantia.org/papers/paper77.html and

http://www.urantia.org/papers/paper114.html are the ones dealing with the 1,111 Secondary Midwayers and others.

God bless...

[Redshift]

Sorry to correct you Geoff but, (going by the Urantia book), a local system has 1000 inhabited worlds, there are 100 systems in a constellation and 100 constellations in a local universe. Jesus is creator of our local universe so he has charge over 10 million worlds, (aprox).

http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p015.htm

[Geoff]

Sorry to correct you Geoff but, (going by the Urantia book), a local system has 1000 inhabited worlds, there are 100 systems in a constellation and 100 constellations in a local universe. Jesus is creator of our local universe so he has charge over 10 million worlds, (aprox).

http://urantiabook.org/newbook/papers/p015.htm

Dear Simon,

Happy to be corrected, but I wonder if we are talking at cross purposes? Urantia (earth) is 606 of Nebadon? Or 606 of something else? Thats what I was thinking about, as Nebadon is Michaels' Universe? As we are quite a young planet, I assume this universe or region called Nebadon is quite some way from the 1,000.

love,
Geoff.

[Paul]

Hi Geoff,

We are in the system of Satania with a projection of one thousand inhabited worlds eventually. Right now there are over 600 worlds inhabited in our local system of Satania. We are in the constellation of Norlatiadek. Each constellation is comprised of 100 physical systems with a projection of 100,000 inhabited worlds. Each local universe is comprised of 100 constellations. Thus each local universe is projected to have ten million inhabited planets. I believe that there are 3.8 million inhabited planets in Nebadon at present.

Our planet is number 606 of the local system of Satania. So, as I understand it, there are systems, (1,000 inhabited worlds), constellations, (100,000 inhabited worlds) and the local universes (10 million inhabited worlds) The round figures are all projected amounts because worlds are still in the process of supporting life. With 6.2 million planets yet to be inhabited in Nebadon we still have a long way to go.

Paul

[Geoff]

Dear paul,

Thanks for that. I was stuck on the 606. Its a heck of a lot really.

love,
Geoff.

[Redshift]

Thanks Paul, I didn't remember that 10 million is an upper limit and that things are still being created.

But yeah Geoff, 10 million worlds boggles the mind. Jesus is a busy guy for sure and yet he has time for us all.

[Joy Abounds Now]

So where would I go to read in The Urantia Book about Jesus' role, who makes up the Trinity? And what was the purpose of His work on the cross, or what was He here to do? What do you mean by His consort, is that the Prime Source? When referring to the Prime Source is that the Father, God? One more question, is there a short synopsis to this belief/knowledge, a Cliff Notes per say?

Thank you for sharing.

~ Jan

[Geoff]

So where would I go to read in The Urantia Book about Jesus' role, who makes up the Trinity? And what was the purpose of His work on the cross, or what was He here to do? What do you mean by His consort, is that the Prime Source? When referring to the Prime Source is that the Father, God? One more question, is there a short synopsis to this belief/knowledge, a Cliff Notes per say?

Thank you for sharing.

~ Jan

Dear Jan,

The Urantia Book can be found on the web, and I probably would advise reading book four first in your case, which is the life and teachings of Jesus. Its almost hour by hour. They start here:

http://www.urantia.org/papers/paper122.html

I might add, that even though I enjoyed these greatly, I personally have some small issues with them, and if one researches the history of the Urantia book, these have a curious origin.

The Trinity is discussed at length, but not something I have bothered to absorb. I feel that when I need to know, I will bother. Maybe Paul will share on that, or Simon.

His purpose here, was firstly for his own education, as every Creator Son must live through seven bestowals, in the form of the creations he has created. As you will see from earlier discussions, our planet is but one of a huge number that he might have chosen for that incarnation, but he bravely came here, to one of the most backward, that he might leave us a perfect example. That example was completed by the time of his baptism, but Father clearly had other plans, and Jesus did not leave us at that time. The "purpose" of the cross, if it can be called that, is that even the lowest of those that have free will, can go about their lives executing that will, and in this case, executing a perfect life of our beloved Creator Son.

His Consort is another creation, called Mother Spirit, or Nebadonia. She too creates, and I believe that the Urantia Book says the Holy Spirit is her creation. I may be corrected on that however. LOL.

I use the term Prime Source, to refer to God, the Creator of All.

I am not sure if there is a short, ie really short synopsis, but I know some summaries have been written. Summarising 2000 pages of small type is hard. You could try the Wiki summary, but be aware that it is a document authored by both those who subscribe to the Urantia Book, as well as those who don't. Hence it may have criticisms that not all of us would agree on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Urantia_Book

love,
Geoff.

[Joy Abounds Now]

Thank you Geoff ~

I'm going to have to save this for later as I need to sleep. I did pick this part up quickly from wiki

Paper 196, the final paper, states:

To "follow Jesus" means to personally share his religious faith and to enter into the spirit of the Master's life of unselfish service for man. One of the most important things in human living is to find out what Jesus believed, to discover his ideals, and to strive for the achievement of his exalted life purpose. Of all human knowledge, that which is of greatest value is to know the religious life of Jesus and how he lived it

.

That is beautiful and TRUE, and what I am striving for. The page number you referred me to in the Urantia reminded me of this verse (also 122 is my birthday), 1 Peter 1:22 "Now that you've cleaned up your lives by following the truth, love one another as if your life depended on it. You new life is not like your old life. Your old birth came from mortal sperm, your new birth comes from God's living Word." from The Message

Speaking of the Word, how does the Urantia Book see the Bible. Just more facts or concepts or words for us to work out, is it a sacred book, or a text book?

This is very much fun conversing about this, thank you. See you tomorrow. ~ Jan

[Geoff]

Speaking of the Word, how does the Urantia Book see the Bible. Just more facts or concepts or words for us to work out, is it a sacred book, or a text book?

Dear Jan

Well I would have to research that, but the Urantia book calls itself the Fifth Epochal Revelation. The word Bible is strangely not found even once in the book. I had not realised that. I presumed that it referred to the Bible as being an earlier revelation, possibly the fourth. I am sure these various revelations are discussed somewhere.

This set of pages may help:
http://urantiabook.org/archive/readers/chrsfund.htm
http://urantiabook.org/index_bible.htm

love,
Geoff.

[SheraX]

Cool stuff Enjoyed reading this.

[Paul]

Dear Jan,

I would like to add a few things to this discussion. Everyone has contributed some great thoughts. I would like to post a few of my own.

Our Heavenly Father lives in Paradise. He lives on his own sphere or planet. He is not just floating around on a cloud or drifting in space. Eons ago he purposed to create a physical universe that would be a shadow of the perfection of Paradise. Paradise serves as a pattern for all of us in the physical universe. This mandate went out from the Father eons ago and it applies to all of us living on planet earth. "Be ye perfect as I am perfect." Our Father could have created us in perfection just as he created perfect entities that reside with him on the one billion worlds of Havona. But he chose to create us in imperfection so that we could aspire to perfection.

There is something to be said about starting out at the bottom. Imagine the strength and amazing faith of children that started out with many animalistic qualities that one day rises above it all to embrace the religion of the spirit. These persons will have faith, patience, fortitude, understanding, sympathy and love like no others. Because they will be able to understand what it feels like to scrap and scrape for each morsel. That is why the victory will be all the sweeter when one day, billions of years from now, we stand before the Father as perfected spirit beings that had their start as material persons of the earth.

Well, the Father did not want us mere mortals to be without spiritual help. He has given us help in abundance through the spiritual network that he has set up. First, the Father knew that we would be at a disadvantage because we would not be able to see Him as he really is, so he sends out trillions upon trillions of Father fragments to dwell in the minds of his mortal children. Some have called this fragment the Spirit of God, the Divine spark, the thought adjuster, etc. This Father fragment lives in our mind always ready to urge us on to become spiritual persons. This fragment from the Father wants us to rise above our fleshly imperfections and to embrace the leadings of the spirit. This fragment also urges us to make that fateful decision to make the Father's will one with our own will.

The second person of the triad is the Eternal Son. Whereas the Father is the thought, the Eternal Son is the Word of God. The people of the first century confused Jesus with the eternal Son. Jesus is a creation of the Father and the Eternal Son. The Eternal Son has a spirit circuit that draws us towards him and Paradise. Just as we are affected by the physical affects of gravity, we are affected by his spirit gravity when we begin to make and maintain spiritual decisions. It was the thought of God and expressed through the Son's word that the Father's plan for a physical universe of imperfect creatures be instituted. So, this was enacted by the Infinite Spirit.

The Infinite Spirit is the God of action and is responsible for the cosmic mind. The one that we call the Holy Spirit, Nebadonia, is the daughter spirit of the Infinite Spirit. She has as her domain the local universe of Nebadon with its thousands of cubic light years. The Infinite Spirit saw to it that trillions of celestial beings would be created to help the mortals of the physical universe. These creatures are the countless angels and other beings that have been created to descend to us and help us rise to the Father. It is through these creations and the ministry of these creatures that mortals such as you and I are helped to become perfected.

So, we have the Father fragments or thought adjusters that dwell in our mind that help to spiritualize us. We have the Eternal Son's spirit gravity circuit that draws us paradiseward. And we have the Creator Son's that bestow themselves to their various creatures, revealing the love of the Father and the mercy of the Son to the mortals of the physical universe. We can see the Father or the Son or both in the personalities of these Creator Sons. Jesus bestowal on our earth had as its main purpose the revealing of Father's personality to the people of the earth. So, when we may lack understanding of one of the personalities of the triad, these Creator Sons can reveal these ones to us.

Our local universe daughter Spirit, Nebadonia, is responsible for all mind. She has instantaneous contact with the tens of trillions of creatures in her realm. Her intellectual prowess and abilities are beyond our comprehension. But what characterizes her above all else is the love that she has for her creatures. It is her spirit circuit that reaches out to us and awakens us to the spirit realm. Jesus's Spirit of Truth also lodges in her spirit circuit and we become aware of our own Creator Son, Christ Michael. Then we also have the spirit circuit of our Father fragments that work to spritualize us as well. These three spirits also work as a triad. Interesting, isn't it? We have the spirit of Nebadonia, our local universe Holy Spirit, the spirit of Jesus or the Spirit of Truth and our Father's Spirit or indwelling fragment working to help us to "be perfect as the Father is perfect."

Any person that reaches out for understanding will not be disappointed. For our Father hears our cries for help to become more like Him. We have teachers at the ready to give all the assistance that they can to help us rise above.

I hope that was helpful Jan. The first ten papers of the Urantia book discusses in much greater detail the Father, Eternal Son and Infinite Spirit. That should help you come to a better understanding.

Love,
Paul

[Geoff]

Dear Paul,

That was well set out, and nicely summarised. Many thanks. As one can see, even if the Urantia Book may significantly vary from the orthodox Christian view, the view, if anything, is far more magnificent. And certainly more loving.

love,
Geoff.
(A VERY weird thing just happened. I signed my post "Jesus". Woah, is that not weird?)

[Joy Abounds Now]

Paul ~ There is some deep stuff in this thread, in your post, and in my head right now. I read your message quickly before going to the same class I was at last week before stumbling upon all this. I neglected my homework this week because I was so immersed in this and life in general. So I didn't put together where we were this week, in the book of Hebrews, which tells about the masses of angels in the heavens pulling for us and the order of Melchezidek. I am blown away how divinely timed I was led into this. Melchezidek is a very obscure character in Bible as I have mentioned before.

I am writing now to thank you, I need some time to read your post and meditate on it. I feel blessed to be here and receive such love. That is a definate knowing I have quickly discerned from your post, and Geoff's. Actually this whole board. Thank you for the hospitality and time you take to share, everyone.

Next weeks class is titled HOLY, the scripture heading is
1 Timothy 2:9 (seeing the 29 made me smile in confirmation) "You are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's own people, in order that you may proclaim the mighty acts of him who called you out of darkenss into his marvelous light." Seems very fitting. Also I dressed my daughter today with the first tee shirt I saw in the drawer, it's a camoflage print with "GOD of the Angel Armies" written on the front, "Mighty Warrior" on the back, I made it for her. But it fits with all I have been absorbing and continue to. I am receiving huge revelation with confirmation.

[Joy Abounds Now]

Also Hebrews is called the faith book, chapter 11 is the faith hall of fame, about all the crusaders in faith who have made it, Abel, Enoch (I would love to see Enoch mentioned in the Urantia book, as I identify with him much also a very obscure character), Noah, Abraham, Joseph. Moses, ..... chapter 12 talks about running the race with perseverance and sticking with it (totally fitting your post Paul). Truly my mond is on overload with all the synchronicities. Very inspiring!

Also my post above was number 22!

Off to meditate, later.

Also just noticed my post above was timed at 2:19 and this week in my class with the 1 Peter 2:9 verse from above is subtitled, "A People Set Apart" - AMAZING!

[Daddy - O]

Hi Jan,

It's nice to meet you

you mentioned:

...(I would love to see Enoch mentioned in the Urantia book...

Enoch is mentioned several times in the Urantia book; here is a link where you can see the papers in the UB where he is mentioned: http://www.urantia.org/cgi-bin/webglimp ... uery=enoch

Also, Enoch is a member of the "Four and Twenty Counselors" discussed in paper 45...here is another link: http://mercy.urantia.org/papers/paper45 ... COUNSELORS

happy reading

love,
Daddy - O