Peter in the courtyard

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Amigoo
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Peter in the courtyard

Post by Amigoo » Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:28 pm

:sunny: (recap from current discussion on another UB blog)

"Peter’s entire experience occurred in the courtyard of the palace of Annas on Mount Olivet. He did not follow Jesus to the palace of the high priest, Caiaphas. That Peter was brought to the realization that he had repeatedly denied his Master by the crowing of a beep-beep indicates that this all occurred outside of Jerusalem since it was against the law to keep poultry within the city proper." (184:2.10)

But there are clues that "beep-beep" did not refer to poultry ... :scratch:

:study: Re: http://www.hrti.co.za/What%20is%20Hebraic%20Roots.html:

"He was the one who had the responsibility of unlocking the Temple doors each and every morning before dawn."

"He would then proceed to unlock the doors to the Temple and cry out three statements in a loud voice: 'All the cohanim (priests) prepare to sacrifice'".

:study: Re: Paper 184 - Before the Sanhedrin Court

"It was not lawful to convene the Sanhedrin court before the time of the offering of the morning sacrifice in the temple, and this sacrifice was offered about three o’clock in the morning." (184:0.1)

"Peter, upon entering the courtyard, went over to the charcoal fire and sought to warm himself, for the night was chilly." (184:2.2)

:idea: Thus, Peter was in the courtyard during the "night" - not at dawn, when a rooster would normally crow upon seeing sunlight (new research says a rooster's
circadian rhythm is its internal alarm, which is usually synchronized with sunlight at dawn).

[re: "beep-beep" substituted into this commentary by this Message Board ...
I was going to change the word to "c--k", but liked "beep-beep" because a rooster in a cartoon might say "beep-beep" :lol:
... especially after socializing in the henhouse.] :roll:

Rod

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Re: Peter in the courtyard

Post by Amigoo » Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:08 pm

:scratch: On the other hand ...

Both versions could be correct historically but dissimilar because of how they were included in the UB
(i.e., one version could be idiom while the other is environmental fact):

http://www.apologeticspress.org/apconte ... rticle=759
http://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/q ... beep-beep-crow

... or maybe the idiom was incidental to Peter's denial and the crowing was real bird-talk
... or maybe both man and bird crowed that morning "for whom the bell tolls".

:scratch: On the other hand ... (a third hand)

Peter's denials occurred in a short period of time (184:2.4,5,6,7) and probably before neither man nor bird crowed three times. Interestingly, Jesus knew how many times Peter would deny him and that these would occur "before the c.ock crows". Logically (?), Jesus' omniscience would include awareness of a man's crowing (temple call) because of its recurring daily schedule rather than awareness of a rooster's crow which would not be so precisely scheduled.

:scratch: On the other hand ... (a fourth hand)

When and which c.ock crowed first is unimportant - Peter's denial "three or four times" was anticipated and did occur:
"Peter, verily, verily, I say to you, this night the c.ock will not crow until you have denied me three or four times". (181:2.29)

Rod :stars:

It's time for a break from this research ...
"His horn went beep beep beep.":
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enqNl7tdLR4

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Re: Peter in the courtyard

Post by Amigoo » Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:29 pm

:roll: On the other hand ... (a fifth and final hand)

Jesus referred to an idiom (temple call), Peter denied him three times before the temple call that day, and the c.ock was added by a post-resurrection editor/translator (not in modern times) to explain the prediction of Jesus since "it was against the law to keep poultry within the city proper." (184:2.10)

Therefore both c.ock versions, as copied into the UB, are correct. :cheers:

Rod ... :bike: ... beep beep :D

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Re: Peter in the courtyard

Post by Sandy » Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:46 am

Thanks for all that, Rod. This is something I must confess that I hadn't thought about but find it very interesting. I was about to change your "beep-beep" to rooster which is what most of us call this male bird these days, and then read this...

[re: "beep-beep" substituted into this commentary by this Message Board ...
I was going to change the word to "c--k", but liked "beep-beep" because a rooster in a cartoon might say "beep-beep" :lol:
... especially after socializing in the henhouse.] :roll:
:lol: what a "hoot" ;) :)
love,
Sandy
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Re: Peter in the courtyard

Post by Geoff » Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:43 am

I did make a few of them visible by the simple expedient of inserting a period i.e. c.ock

Maybe I should alter the swear word dictionary to replace c.ock with rooster? Boy that could give us a few more laughs?

lol
G
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~ said Jesus through Glenda Green in "Love without End" ~

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Re: Peter in the courtyard

Post by Amigoo » Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:26 am

On the other hand ... (or fifth hand, part B) :roll:

:idea: After the Jerusalem temple was destroyed by the Romans in 70 AD, the temple call as idiom ("c.ock crows") was no longer popular ... especially by subsequent generations. So, the Bible editors/translators centuries later may have invented "poultry" to support Jesus' prediction.

Rod :D

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Re: Peter in the courtyard

Post by Sandy » Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:35 am

Geoff wrote:
Maybe I should alter the swear word dictionary to replace c.ock with rooster? Boy that could give us a few more laughs?
:lol: George liked that too! :mrgreen:
love,
Sandy
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Re: Peter in the courtyard

Post by Amigoo » Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:57 pm

Jesus was not a prophet ... :o
(new insight with perspective of Simon Peter)

:study: Re: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prophet

"In religion, a prophet is an individual who is claimed to have been contacted by the supernatural or the divine, and to speak for them, serving as an intermediary with humanity, delivering this newfound knowledge from the supernatural entity to other people"

:idea: Jesus could not have been a prophet because he was an incarnated Divine Son - not a contactee; John the Baptist was a prophet.

"Priests, kings, and prophets were worshiped; the holy men of old were looked upon as inspired by the deities." (85:6.2)

:idea: Jesus did not want to be worshiped - his message was to worship the Father.


Interestingly, in no Paper does the Urantia Book confirm that Jesus was a prophet, but seeming confirmation simply records that some people then considered him to be the "prophet of Galilee":

"He did not know that the Jesus who had directed him to wash at Siloam, and who had promised him vision, was the prophet of Galilee who had preached in Jerusalem during the feast of tabernacles." (164:3.11)

:sunny: Therefore, we students of the Revelation should be mindful of Jesus' divinity as a human and not portray him as a prophet of that order of human leaders and teachers. To insist that Jesus was a prophet maintains his presence in the continuing controversy amongst religions about "greatest prophet".

"Jesus did not speak like a prophet, one who comes to declare the word of God. He seemed to speak of himself as one having authority." (138:8.8 )

:scratch: Did Jesus' apostles believe that he was a prophet? They agreed that he was more than a prophet:

“But who say you that I am?” There was a moment of tense silence. The twelve never took their eyes off the Master, and then Simon Peter, springing to his feet, exclaimed: “You are the Deliverer, the Son of the living God.” (157:3.5)

Rod

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Re: Peter in the courtyard

Post by Sandy » Mon Apr 06, 2015 3:15 am

Hi Rod,
“But who say you that I am?” There was a moment of tense silence. The twelve never took their eyes off the Master, and then Simon Peter, springing to his feet, exclaimed: “You are the Deliverer, the Son of the living God.” (157:3.5)
and it goes on to say...
" And the eleven sitting apostles arose to their feet with one accord, thereby indicating that Peter had spoken for all of them.
When I first read that passage I got goose bumps as my mind envisaged the scene. I wanted to thump all twelve of the apostles on their backs and say well done, guys! :cheers:
xxSandy
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Re: Peter in the courtyard

Post by Amigoo » Mon Apr 06, 2015 4:45 am

;) And "Well done!" Sandy,
for embellishing the perspective
and completing the scene.

Rod

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