Captain's Table

A forum to discuss the Urantia Book.
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Captain's Table

Post by Amigoo » Fri Sep 05, 2014 4:44 pm

:sunny: Re: http://aitnaru.org/images/Urantia_Papers.pdf

With the Urantia Papers PDF file completed (see comments in "Complexity of Language in the Urantia Book"), this topic is open for comments by those who try to read the Papers within 197 consecutive days. I'll copy the PDF to a tablet this month, post a comment here, then begin my own voyage. :finger:

September 11 seems to offer good symbolism for a start date
... with significant challenges ahead to the schedule. ;)

:cheers: March 26, 2015 is the port arrival date.

Rod

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Re: Captain's Table

Post by Sandy » Sat Sep 06, 2014 4:38 am

Hi Rod,
YIkes! If I am going to get a head start, I had better get crackin! I'm off to sit in the sun and begin Paper 1.
Hugs,
Sandy
( I am excited about this and determined to make it to port March 26th! :bana: )
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.

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Re: Captain's Table

Post by Amigoo » Thu Sep 11, 2014 9:11 pm

:cheers: One down, 196 to go!

Since I found my notebook from the 70-day challenge (7/7/12 - 9/14/12), I will use this for the Captain's Table challenge.
Today's first entry: "9/11/14, Fwd: 1:50p - 2:40p"

The prepared audio* will probably be my consistent assistant since, once it starts playing, I don't stop it and must stay alert and pay attention. I'm also rationalizing that this newly formatted PDF needs to be verified against the audio. :roll:

:finger: I'm expecting to move ahead of schedule soon and will also take advantage of random opportunities to read two or three Papers consecutively. This occurs especially when extra time is available or the consecutive Papers are shorter than average.

* Purchased audio (197 MP3 files), modified for personal use. The free Audacity audio software, after experimentation, convinced me that a 33% increase in tempo with no change in pitch was the best compromise for faster reading speed without significant loss in quality. Some of the Papers had been read too slowly (IMO) but I maintained the 33% compromise for all Papers. At least, "It works for me". ;)

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Re: Captain's Table

Post by Sandy » Fri Sep 12, 2014 2:03 am

Good Morning Rod,

Let's see, I sneaked ahead as you suggested and I concluded Paper 6 this morning. I began contemplations of the Eternal Son, a subject I must admit confounds me just a little. But I think a thorough read of these papers will help.

I am a visual learner and at times find myself needing to stop and rethink a paragraph before moving on. I have shown a tendency to put aside bits and pieces that are more difficult in deference for the easy to comprehend. But I am determined to understand it all before moving on this time, even if I find myself trying to play catch up in the voyage. So you may find me posting some questions along the way. I hope that is okay?

XXSandy
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Re: Captain's Table

Post by Amigoo » Fri Sep 12, 2014 3:45 pm

Sandy,

:cheers: What progress you're making! I read the Foreword, then Paper 1 later in the day.

I had not committed to more study as I read, but your questions might improve my priorities. I should have "informed opinions" at least and be able to help research, either online (e.g., http://www.theUB.org), within resources on my computer, or by asking several local, very-long-time readers. :finger:

:scratch: I've often wondered if it's time for readers to make notes for a Urantia Book for Dummies :duh
(the Bible for Dummies has been available for years). Later, a committee could review these notes and finalize them into the book.

Abridged UBs are for sale, but all seem to be quality digests more than purposeful introduction to the Urantia material. Online publishing now permits easier (and less costly) rollout of such authorship. With a tome like the UB, "The Urantia Book for Dummies - First Draft" may be the better title. ;)

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Re: Captain's Table

Post by Amigoo » Sat Sep 13, 2014 1:11 am

:scratch: On second thought ...

The "For Dummies" series is a well-managed, growing collection of human authorship ... and that's the problem. :shock:
The Urantia Papers comprise an epochal revelation, requiring certain "elevation" in any secondary work.

:idea: Also, introductory material should continually lead new readers to the Papers of this Revelation and not try to replace (digest) their pages. From this perspective, a title should have some loftiness and might even avoid the word "Urantia". Instead, "universe" and points beyond seem to have more fragrant essence of epochal scale. 8)

Obviously, much planning (then work) would be required for such a project. :roll:

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Re: Captain's Table

Post by Sandy » Sat Sep 13, 2014 2:01 am

Hi Rod, I was all prepared to agree with you and champion your idea for Urantia Book for Dummies...and then I read your last post and realize you are absolutely right. Still I often say if I can read it and comprehend most of it almost anyone can who has a desire to experience more and has faith that the Universal Father via their own personal TA will lead the charge.

I think too with those "bits" that come through that confuse me I might find help within if I will ask and give it some meditative thought. Too often I shut down and move on... easy to do especially when time is of the essence.
:idea: Also, introductory material should continually lead new readers to the Papers of this Revelation and not try to replace (digest) their pages. From this perspective, a title should have some loftiness and might even avoid the word "Urantia". Instead, "universe" and points beyond seem to have more fragrant essence of epochal scale. 8)
You know, it is interesting the many ways our TA's, Guides and Teachers can lead us to life changing items such as the Urantia Book. For me, it was mentioned in an appendix at the back of a spiritual book along with twenty or more other entries...but for some reason I couldn't get that book out of my mind. And then finally one day I found myself at Barnes and Noble and asked if they carried it and to my surprise and horror it was in the Occult books! :shock: :lol: Well, not to be deterred, but with a prayer of protection and sincere longings for Divine guidance, I opened the book and began reading the Fore ward...(which was another bit of a shocker...but in a good and spirit building way. ;) ) It was so beautiful at times that I could almost feel my heart sing (off key of course) and I didn't realize until recently I was in effect participating in a form of worshipful meditation in a particular manner of reading. You see, about a month ago I discovered this bit of writing buried in a monastery webpage concerning their library...(it also came in regards to a question in my heart from a debate on another website, once again illustrating the various ways our TA can answer our questions and move us ever onwards to our spiritual goals.)

ttp://www.glenstal.org/?page_id=153
What is the purpose of a monastic library?
While the purpose of this conference is to launch a joint initiative between the monastic and ecclesiastical libraries of Munster with UCC and UL I am sure that I am not alone among the librarians in thinking that the function of a monastery library is not the promotion of academic endeavour or intellectual life. This is not to deny the academic achievements of the various Munster monasteries but to reassert the primary function for which the monastery exists: the praise and worship of God and the building up of his people. Without becoming too precious about this I think that it is fair to say that a monk’s approach to a book differs from that of an academic and monastic reading from academic research. In Chapter 49 of the RB St Benedict outlines this approach Lectio Divina or sacred reading has been terribly important. This is the slow, meditative reading of the scriptures in which the object is not the accumulation of knowledge or information but an encounter with the living God. It is an approach very much at variance with how we usually read or study; normally the goal is to conquer the text, to master it and extract from it all we can before moving onto something else, in Lectio divina the text of scripture gradually conquers you, becomes part of you, becomes the means by which to hear the ‘voice of the Lord, full of power’.
Hmm... I think I might have posted this before somewhere on the board but cannot remember...if so I apologize for my redundancy. :oops:

I have yet to read Paper 7 today and so it might very well help me to understand what causes me confusion but if not I will keep track of my questions and perhaps find the answers here on this thread or via a little research on the net. I want to understand it as thoroughly as I can at this stage in my development. :sunflower:

Thanks Rod,
:loves
Sandy
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Re: Captain's Table

Post by Amigoo » Sat Sep 13, 2014 3:07 am

Sandy,
it is interesting the many ways our TA's, Guides and Teachers can lead us
This may be the greater value of "sacred" books and similar materials (even "epochal revelation'), written or crafted in other media (architecture, music, art, poetry, etc.). They all help enrich our evolving experiential repository whose components and symbolism are used by our personal guides to keep leading us along the many growth-stimulating pathways of mortal life ... with Paradise being our ultimate destination. 8)

Rod

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Re: Captain's Table

Post by Amigoo » Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:11 am

At 12:01 AM today, I was officially one Paper behind schedule. :shock:

:flower: I rationalized that the new Lambda Lines geometry design* had priority, but for one day only. :finger:
(the key to that creativity sandbox must be hidden for the duration of this Captain's challenge)

* Each yellow right triangle squares a circle where the relationships
and relative dimensions are known only to savvy geometers. ;)

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Re: Captain's Table

Post by Sandy » Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:42 am

I too had trouble yesterday meeting the one paper a day challenge and I didn't even have your worthy excuse for "mussing" it. I am ever so grateful that you encouraged me to get a jump start on the challenge. While I'm not officially behind yet I can see the importance of making the best use of my time especially since reading in the evenings puts me right to sleep especially if the information is complex. So mornings must be better utilized. I just read part 7 in Paper 9 introducing universe reflectivity which I find fascinating.
love,
Sandy
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Re: Captain's Table

Post by Amigoo » Tue Sep 16, 2014 3:53 am

Sandy,

Here's a current event that's timely for the Papers this year: :roll

Re: http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-28667530
Rosetta will try to discover: "Where did life on earth come from?"

The UB says that Life Carriers created life on this planet 550 million years ago
(36:3.2, 58:4, 62:0.1, 65:2.1) :shock:

Let's see what the Rosetta team discovers! :cheers:

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Re: Captain's Table

Post by Sandy » Tue Sep 16, 2014 8:26 am

OH Wow isn't that exciting!!! I hope they are successful in their attempt to land a probe and create an orbit with Rosetta around the comet! How exciting is that? :cheers: It will be interesting to see what the data shows about the comet's age and composition among a wealth of other things. I bet there are some pretty excited but nervous scientists right about now. :finger:
:bana:
xxSandy
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.

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Re: Captain's Table

Post by Amigoo » Tue Sep 16, 2014 12:00 pm

Sandy,

It's intriguing that, since life (especially, the basic elements) exist in our parts of our universe, comets might contain some of those elements. Would such discovery cause scientists to conclude that a comet(s) brought life to our planet? :roll:

:study: The UB mentions that basic elements alone cannot create biological life (36:3.3-4):

"When, in accordance with approved formulas, the physical patterns have been provided, then do the Life Carriers catalyze this lifeless material, imparting through their persons the vital spirit spark; and forthwith do the inert patterns become living matter.

"The vital spark — the mystery of life — is bestowed through the Life Carriers, not by them. They do indeed supervise such transactions, they formulate the life plasm itself, but it is the Universe Mother Spirit who supplies the essential factor of the living plasm. From the Creative Daughter of the Infinite Spirit comes that energy spark which enlivens the body and presages the mind." 8)

Current science seems to include belief that life can start spontaneously when the necessary elements are present. And without means to prove existence/activation of a "vital spark", modern science could easily conclude that life starts spontaneously! :shock:

So, the next research step is for science to assemble the basic elements and try to create a "vital spark".

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Re: Captain's Table

Post by Sandy » Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:50 am

Hi Rod,

I've been thinking about your previous post. Seems somewhere I read an article pertaining to this but cannot find it now. I would love to be a little gnat on a Life carrier ear (if they have one) and watch them go about their work...not that I would understand it any of it at this time.

I am reading about space respiration today and must admit I felt a little bedazzled. I then found a most helpful illustration that helped me to put the whole enormous thing into the simplest of understanding.
http://www.squarecircles.com/studyaids/ ... ration.pdf

Here’s the home page, with lots of other interesting “stuff” which I think I will keep handy as I continue my reading challenge.
http://www.squarecircles.com/studyaids/HaraDavis.html
love,
Sandy
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Re: Captain's Table

Post by Amigoo » Thu Sep 18, 2014 6:22 am

Sandy,

~ More contemplation about the "vital spark" (36:6.1-2) ... :arrow:

"Life is both mechanistic and vitalistic — material and spiritual. Ever will Urantia physicists and chemists progress in their understanding of the protoplasmic forms of vegetable and animal life, but never will they be able to produce living organisms. Life is something different from all energy manifestations; even the material life of physical creatures is not inherent in matter.

"Things material may enjoy an independent existence, but life springs only from life. Mind can be derived only from pre-existent mind. Spirit takes origin only from spirit ancestors. The creature may produce the forms of life, but only a creator personality or a creative force can supply the activating living spark."


:geek: I understand this discussion to mean that scientists will never be able to create life - just modify or clone it. For example, DNA can be extracted from dead organisms, but DNA is essentially pattern - not life. When that pattern (DNA) is implanted in a living cell, the cell may give evidence of identical life "resurrected", but this is not life newly created. Only the "vital spark" can initiiate new life from properly assembled components.

And these Papers seem to caution that seeming life creation (e.g., experimentation, creating living organisms) is not really creating new life. The following paragraph elaborates by noting that "mind endowment and reproductive powers" must be present if new life would be authenticated: ;)

"Life Carriers can organize the material forms, or physical patterns, of living beings, but the Spirit provides the initial spark of life and bestows the endowment of mind. Even the living forms of experimental life which the Life Carriers organize on their Salvington worlds are always devoid of reproductive powers. When the life formulas and the vital patterns are correctly assembled and properly organized, the presence of a Life Carrier is sufficient to initiate life, but all such living organisms are lacking in two essential attributes — mind endowment and reproductive powers. Animal mind and human mind are gifts of the local universe Mother Spirit, functioning through the seven adjutant mind-spirits, while creature ability to reproduce is the specific and personal impartation of the Universe Spirit to the ancestral life plasm inaugurated by the Life Carriers." (36:6.3)


:study: By reading between the lines of modern research, commentary, etc., I sense that humans are less focused on these finer points of what constitutes new life. So, it's conceivable that scientists will someday declare that life has been created when, in fact, it does not contain authenticating evidence of initiation by that "vital spark".


~ Regarding resources and other "stuff" ... :arrow:

Re: http://www.squarecircles.com/studyaids/ ... ration.pdf

This a great visual for pervaded/unpervaded space. For humorous simplification, we can reduce "forces, energies, powers & presences known to exist" to "stuff": pervaded space has this stuff - unpervaded space has none. I theorize that space respiration is necessary because movement of this stuff - even within pervaded space; even down to the atomic level - is critical for keeping the living organism, called the Master Universe, alive. :roll


~ Back to the reading challenge ... :arrow:

I sucessfully recovered from being five Papers behind schedule. But I already knew how to do this: become a social hermit having reading as the highest priority. Not a recommended solution but it works! The better solution is not to fall behind so much ... or stay far ahead of schedule whenever possible. Yes, there are months ahead for such "emergency" recovery, but doing this in the final weeks is risky since hermitizing may not be possible then because of unyielding priorities. ;)

Rod

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Re: Captain's Table

Post by Amigoo » Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:55 pm

Re: http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-28667530
Rosetta will try to discover: "Where did life on earth come from?"

:scratch: More reflection on the logic of expecting to find life (or its evidence) on space bodies like asteroids and comets ...

If these space bodies represent "ancestral material of the solar system planets" ( 57:5.8 ), this implies that the objects (planets?) from which this material derived was not yet suitable for any life that would be activated by the "vital spark". Otherwise, Life Carriers would have knowingly initiated life on a doomed planet. :shock:

I assume "knowingly" because the astronomical science (detecting, tracking, forecasting, etc.) of Life carriers would have to be "astronomical"
(i.e., unbelievably precise by human standards). ;)

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Re: Captain's Table

Post by Amigoo » Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:44 am

:shock: Completion Dates for the
Captain's Table 197-Day Challenge

~ 09/11/14 - Fwd, 1 Paper
~ 10/13/14 - Part I, 32 Papers
~ 11/06/14 - Part II, 24 Papers
~ 01/08/15 - Part III, 63 Papers
~ 03/26/15 - Part IV, 77 Papers

(optional one-per-day schedule) 8)

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Re: Captain's Table

Post by Sandy » Sat Sep 20, 2014 6:22 am

Hi Rod,
I was just reading about Father's gift of personality a few papers ago and how precious and unique it is something only He can bestow on the "creatures of time/space. Of course, since then there have been a fair few papers full of important and complex material my little brain is brimming with a jumble of information that is stuck every bit as much as the keys of an old fashioned type writer when you click to many of them all at the same time. LOL I am trying to "unjumble" the mish mosh of material but may take some time.

I am very interested in the thoughts you expressed here...
"Things material may enjoy an independent existence, but life springs only from life. Mind can be derived only from pre-existent mind. Spirit takes origin only from spirit ancestors. The creature may produce the forms of life, but only a creator personality or a creative force can supply the activating living spark."

:geek: I understand this discussion to mean that scientists will never be able to create life - just modify or clone it. For example, DNA can be extracted from dead organisms, but DNA is essentially pattern - not life. When that pattern (DNA) is implanted in a living cell, the cell may give evidence of identical life "resurrected", but this is not life newly created. Only the "vital spark" can initiate new life from properly assembled components.
I did find the URL of an article speaking on this subject. I came across it weeks ago now so you might as well say as far as remembering what it says I am in the dark. I wanted to watch it again but my computer connection today is nearly non existence, making it impossible to view videos. Please forgive me if this in no way relates to your discussion on this thread.

You wrote:
:geek: I understand this discussion to mean that scientists will never be able to create life - just modify or clone it. For example, DNA can be extracted from dead organisms, but DNA is essentially pattern - not life. When that pattern (DNA) is implanted in a living cell, the cell may give evidence of identical life "resurrected", but this is not life newly created. Only the "vital spark" can initiiate new life from properly assembled components.
You have me thinking about Dolly the sheep that was cloned from an adult sheep's mammary gland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolly_(sheep)

In this wiki article we are told she was able to have off spring.... so this is what I am wondering. Did God do His wonderful thing and bestow personality on this little darling enabling her to have the most important attribute of living creatures? Was Dolly blessed with a mind endowment. Are Life Carriers presently on the planet? (hmmm must look that up and see if the Ubook can provide the answer.) It does seem to me that perhaps this little girl's "life formulas and the vital patterns were correctly assembled and properly organized,
And was bestowed the Creator's spark because of her resultant reproduction capabilities." of course unlike Life Carriers, our scientists are working off already established life. :scratch:

George was also just reminding me that some animal life has the natural ability to clone itself and it is the way the species reproduces.
LOL My mind is over heating... not used to thinking this hard...I am hoping this strict Urantia book reading program will help me clear out some of the dross. Oh and all that note I want to thank you for this...
:shock: Completion Dates for the
Captain's Table 197-Day Challenge

~ 09/11/14 - Fwd, 1 Paper
~ 10/13/14 - Part I, 32 Papers
~ 11/06/14 - Part II, 24 Papers
~ 01/08/15 - Part III, 63 Papers
~ 03/26/15 - Part IV, 77 Papers
I was just thinking this morning that I needed something of this nature to keep me on track and voila like magic... there it is. :lol: Thanks rod!

Hmm I am behind already...or I would be if I wasn't a little ahead. (Still trying to keep that 5 paper buffer.) Well if I fall behind, it will probably get easier once we move into the Second Part. maybe then I can make up lost days.

Have a great week end! :hithere
Sandy
:study:
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Re: Captain's Table

Post by Amigoo » Sat Sep 20, 2014 2:33 pm

Sandy,

The UB's discussion about life and "vital spark" seems to focus on the fine points of what causes/initiates life from non-living components. I believe that this discussion is mostly about cells, in particular, protoplasm.

:study: Here are various UB paragraphs that elaborate:

"The biologic unit of material life is the protoplasmic cell, the communal association of chemical, electrical, and other basic energies. The chemical formulas differ in each system, and the technique of living cell reproduction is slightly different in each local universe, but the Life Carriers are always the living catalyzers who initiate the primordial reactions of material life; they are the instigators of the energy circuits of living matter." (49:1.2)

"Many features of human life afford abundant evidence that the phenomenon of mortal existence was intelligently planned, that organic evolution is not a mere cosmic accident. When a living cell is injured, it possesses the ability to elaborate certain chemical substances which are empowered so to stimulate and activate the neighboring normal cells that they immediately begin the secretion of certain substances which facilitate healing processes in the wound; and at the same time these normal and uninjured cells begin to proliferate — they actually start to work creating new cells to replace any fellow cells which may have been destroyed by the accident." (65:4.3) 8)

"This chemical action and reaction concerned in wound healing and cell reproduction represents the choice of the Life Carriers of a formula embracing over one hundred thousand phases and features of possible chemical reactions and biologic repercussions. More than half a million specific experiments were made by the Life Carriers in their laboratories before they finally settled upon this formula for the Urantia life experiment." (65:4.4) :o

"When Urantia scientists know more of these healing chemicals, they will become more efficient in the treatment of injuries, and indirectly they will know more about controlling certain serious diseases." (65:4.5) :roll

"The same sort of a paradox confronts mortal man when he undertakes the chemical analysis of protoplasm. The chemist can elucidate the chemistry of dead protoplasm, but he cannot discern either the physical organization or the dynamic performance of living protoplasm. Ever will the scientist come nearer and nearer the secrets of life, but never will he find them and for no other reason than that he must kill protoplasm in order to analyze it." (65:6.1) :shock:


:idea: The discussion referring to nearby cells that help repair/replace damaged cells was easy to observe in my former wife's diabetes skin injuries. Despite the medical "lotions and potions" (and therapies) prescribed, healing did not occur unless living healthy cells were available nearby to help nurture healing.


About the Captain's Table schedule ...

:duh I found myself counting the days from Day 1 every time that I wanted to know my progress. Eventually, I realized that I had a lot of counting ahead if this method continued. So, I used an online date calculation feature to set up this simple schedule; a weekly schedule might help for Parts III and IV.

After getting so far behind (because of Lambda Lines geometry research*), I'm now two Papers ahead of schedule. It's fascinating "how time flies" when you think that you have a comfortable lead; that lead disappears so easily in our busy lives! :roll:

* My x:52/x:53 time prompts have been appearing recently, as if to advise that further exploration in the geometry would be timely (relate to current progress). I keep complaining (to no one in particular) that "exploration" typically means hours of doodling with the CAD software. And these many hours effectively reduce time avaialble for the Captain's Challenge.

:cheers: But I sense that the impressive new pattern emerging in the continuing study of Lambda Lines has priority over the Captain's schedule. At least, the pattern may be trying to convince me that the Lamda Lines geometry is truly on target. :finger:

Rod

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Re: Captain's Table

Post by Sandy » Sun Sep 21, 2014 3:33 am

Hi Rod,
I made some good progress this morning in my reading. I'm visualizing (imagining ;) ) Paradise and the Spheres of the Father, the Eternal Son and the Infinite Spirit as we speak. I am hoping this afternoon to at the very least to begin another chapter but I may need to divide my leisure time with a bit of garden preparation. So I understand in a similar way the pull of the cad program. Still, both of your worthy enterprises are an exercise in spirit building and adding additional "crumbs" to your soul's "back pack." (from a transmit a few days ago from Ophelius I believe. ;) :) )

Isn't it mind boggling the body's ability to heal itself in many instances.
This chemical action and reaction concerned in wound healing and cell reproduction represents the choice of the Life Carriers of a formula embracing over one hundred thousand phases and features of possible chemical reactions and biologic repercussions. More than half a million specific experiments were made by the Life Carriers in their laboratories before they finally settled upon this formula for the Urantia life experiment." (65:4.4) :o
Thank you Life carriers! I cannot imagine the many experiments exercised with this one point as an objective. Wouldn't you love to see their "notes"? It would all be so far above our heads, mine especially but someday...maybe not. :finger:
"When Urantia scientists know more of these healing chemicals, they will become more efficient in the treatment of injuries, and indirectly they will know more about controlling certain serious diseases." (65:4.5) :roll
This gives me hope that enormous break throughs will be made in the not too distant future that will lead to understanding the diseases of Urantia on such a level that cures become wides spread, efficiently rendering a nearly disease free Urantia. Think of the huge resources that could then be better spent in other areas on the planet. :sunflower:

Enjoy your reading and your doodling, Rod. Oh and and I so appreciate you for helping me to better understand what is being conveyed. :D
xxSandy
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.

~ Chief Seattle ~

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Re: Captain's Table

Post by Sandy » Sun Sep 21, 2014 3:54 am

Hey me again...
I read something this morning I want to run past you and get your thoughts on the hows and whys...
here it is..
Paper 12: The Universe of Universes
5. Space and Time

(134.6) 12:5.1 Like space, time is a bestowal of Paradise, but not in the same sense, only indirectly. Time comes by virtue of motion and because mind is inherently aware of sequentiality. From a practical viewpoint, motion is essential to time, but there is no universal time unit based on motion except in so far as the Paradise-Havona standard day is arbitrarily so recognized. The totality of space respiration destroys its local value as a time source.

(135.1) 12:5.2 Space is not infinite, even though it takes origin from Paradise; not absolute, for it is pervaded by the Unqualified Absolute. We do not know the absolute limits of space, but we do know that the absolute of time is eternity.

(135.2) 12:5.3 Time and space are inseparable only in the time-space creations, the seven superuniverses. Nontemporal space (space without time) theoretically exists, but the only truly nontemporal place is Paradise area. Nonspatial time (time without space) exists in mind of the Paradise level of function.

(135.3) 12:5.4 The relatively motionless midspace zones impinging on Paradise and separating pervaded from unpervaded space are the transition zones from time to eternity, hence the necessity of Paradise pilgrims becoming unconscious during this transit when it is to culminate in Paradise citizenship. Time-conscious visitors can go to Paradise without thus sleeping, but they remain creatures of time.

(135.4) 12:5.5 Relationships to time do not exist without motion in space, but consciousness of time does. Sequentiality can consciousize time even in the absence of motion. Man’s mind is less time-bound than space-bound because of the inherent nature of mind. Even during the days of the earth life in the flesh, though man’s mind is rigidly space-bound, the creative human imagination is comparatively time free. But time itself is not genetically a quality of mind.
The part bolded...I feel like the answer is right in front of me but I've missed it. I don't understand why being conscious on the trip to Paradise would make you remain a creature of time whereas being unconscious throughout the trip and the motionless space transition areas
provides you with the timelessness of eternity.??? :scratch:

xxSandy

Oh wait... I might have it in the last little paragraph. "Relationships to time do not exist without motion in space, but consciousness of time does. Sequentiality can consciousize time even in the absence of motion."

In other words, by a time space pilgrim being conscious of the time upon traveling to Paradise, which is motionless, unlike the 7 universes of Space, this proceeds to keep them time bound because of their consciousness of the time passed on the trip to arrive on the eternal shores. hmmm I still don't understand the whys of it, though... (making my head hurt. :shock: )
hugs again,
Sandy
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.

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Re: Captain's Table

Post by Sandy » Sun Sep 21, 2014 4:16 am

And on a very happy note... I loved this part I read in Paper 12 part 7
(139.1) 12:7.12 It is a mystery that God is a highly personal self-conscious being with residential headquarters, and at the same time personally present in such a vast universe and personally in contact with such a well-nigh infinite number of beings. That such a phenomenon is a mystery beyond human comprehension should not in the least lessen your faith. Do not allow the magnitude of the infinity, the immensity of the eternity, and the grandeur and glory of the matchless character of God to overawe, stagger, or discourage you; for the Father is not very far from any one of you; he dwells within you, and in him do we all literally move, actually live, and veritably have our being.

(139.2) 12:7.13 Even though the Paradise Father functions through his divine creators and his creature children, he also enjoys the most intimate inner contact with you, so sublime, so highly personal, that it is even beyond my comprehension — that mysterious communion of the Father fragment with the human soul and with the mortal mind of its actual indwelling. Knowing what you do of these gifts of God, you therefore know that the Father is in intimate touch, not only with his divine associates, but also with his evolutionary mortal children of time. The Father indeed abides on Paradise, but his divine presence also dwells in the minds of men.

(139.3) 12:7.14 Even though the spirit of a Son be poured out upon all flesh, even though a Son once dwelt with you in the likeness of mortal flesh, even though the seraphim personally guard and guide you, how can any of these divine beings of the Second and Third Centers ever hope to come as near to you or to understand you as fully as the Father, who has given a part of himself to be in you, to be your real and divine, even your eternal, self?
... and this part speaking of brotherhood just before the above quote makes me sing! (well inside where I cannot hurt the ears of passers by...that would be George and the Midwayers. :lol: )
(138.5) 12:7.10 This very love of God for the individual brings into being the divine family of all individuals, the universal brotherhood of the freewill children of the Paradise Father. And this brotherhood, being universal, is a relationship of the whole. Brotherhood, when universal, discloses not the each relationship, but the all relationship. Brotherhood is a reality of the total and therefore discloses qualities of the whole in contradistinction to qualities of the part.

(138.6) 12:7.11 Brotherhood constitutes a fact of relationship between every personality in universal existence. No person can escape the benefits or the penalties that may come as a result of relationship to other persons. The part profits or suffers in measure with the whole. The good effort of each man benefits all men; the error or evil of each man augments the tribulation of all men. As moves the part, so moves the whole. As the progress of the whole, so the progress of the part. The relative velocities of part and whole determine whether the part is retarded by the inertia of the whole or is carried forward by the momentum of the cosmic brotherhood.
I guess the reason it makes me happy as I see clearly how each part, each one of us, can positively contribute to the welfare on a much larger level, contributing to the overall brotherhood of man. So that each little loving bit effectively helps to swing mankind's "pendulum " towards brotherhood, thereby making progressive Love the key to overcoming the dark inertia. :sunflower: (This was something recently Welles was explaining to me in different words. Sort of reinforces that conversation in a big way. :D )
xxSandy
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.

~ Chief Seattle ~

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Re: Captain's Table

Post by Amigoo » Sun Sep 21, 2014 5:03 am

:cheers: You'll be the first to qualify for UB teaching credentials ...
or committee chairwoman when the "Dummies" book is created.

Thanks for the "time" references! I've tried to conceptualize that time is a measure of change - it's not a "thing". For if nothing at all changed in the universe (even at the material atomic level), we would have no evidence of time. :shock:

:idea: So, when the UB refers to time (anywhere in the universes), it's alluding to motion
... and the duration of events inherent in that motion.

Rod

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Re: Captain's Table

Post by Sandy » Mon Sep 22, 2014 6:15 am

:cheers: You'll be the first to qualify for UB teaching credentials ...
or committee chairwoman when the "Dummies" book is created.
:cheers: If only it were so, Rod. :lol: I am qualified, however, to stand on a street corner and pass out the said Urantia for dummies books.
:idea: So, when the UB refers to time (anywhere in the universes), it's alluding to motion
... and the duration of events inherent in that motion.
Okay you have me thinking (always a dangerous occupation for me :) )

I remember years ago seeing a cosmology physics special that spoke of future flight to neighbouring star systems. It basically said that people who were on the ship flying at light speed or beyond would barely age on the trip and on the return trip they would arrive to a world where everybody they once knew had passed away. Time would almost stand still for their body anyway. I don't remember whether they were conscious or not. Doesn't Albert Einstein have a theory that addresses this? In the back of my head something is trying to rattle around. :scratch:
xxSandy
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~ Chief Seattle ~

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Re: Captain's Table

Post by Amigoo » Mon Sep 22, 2014 3:55 pm

Sandy,

:idea: Regarding the speed-of-light flight ...

Something is not translating correctly in this theory (IMO), otherwise very active commercial pilots on earth should age noticeably slower than people who never travel faster than walking. :roll:

Another perspective ...

:scratch: If humans were encapsulated for such a speed-of-light flight (encapsulated with sufficient life support), what factors exterior to the capsule would interfere with normal biologic aging inside the capsule?

Also, (re: UB 66:5.20) "health-giving and disease-destroying properties of sunlight"
these space travelers might age faster (not slower) if deprived of certain elements of natural sunlight. :shock:

Rod

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