Karma and Reincarnation.

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Karma and Reincarnation.

Post by George » Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:56 am

This transmit momentarily shocked me because the mention of reincarnation was "forced"
in the sense that I had to say it, but it did not flow as usual as I babble on, hardly aware of
any thought, just taking dictation.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Illawarra District, Australia, February 22, 2013.
Samuel of Panoptia.
Subject: “Karma and Reincarnation” (abbreviated transmission).

Received by George Barnard.

Samuel: “Essentially, and in the end analysis, we are responsible to the Creator of All for the quality of our teachings. That is to say, our dear students, they are your Thought Adjusters whom we must please. In the immediate, we are responsible to Machiventa, because 11:11 Progress is all (up) to your Planetary Prince. As well, Aaron and I both want you to know that if interruptions ensue during our conversations, the Midwayers will later take over, we will go about our business, and you may edit out all extraneous communication.

“Incidentally, your 11:11 Friends of old will then provide you with the remainder of our lesson, concept by concept, and without fail. We wish to now expand on the subject of karma, and reincarnation. Well might you suggest that this could potentially be a life-long study for some on your world for whom certain belief in reincarnation is sacred. Be surprised when we assure you it is not greatly different for both Aaron and me. Not only have we experienced karma, good and bad, but reincarnation as well.

“I am informed of the shocked look on your face. Hear me out now. Both Aaron and I had to deal with, and to a degree we still do, all that, which we did right, and all that, which we did wrong whilst on our respective evolutionary worlds. Fortunately the good by far outweighed the bad, but the total shaped our new lives on the Mansion Worlds, and that is what we owe to our karma – the privileged positions we earned and now occupy. Obviously, you are not assured about how we see reincarnation, but bear with us … patiently.

“Here on the Mansion Worlds we received new bodies to play host to the souls that were nurtured on Panoptia and Urantia respectively. However, what is more important, most important, nay, of supreme importance, that the Thought Adjusters, our future universe Identities, which guided us on our (mortal) worlds, are guiding us now. Yet for our living on new (architectural) worlds, and for us having new, lighter bodies, this is reincarnation to us, and not all that different from what your Hindu friends keep putting before you.

“Your total karma includes what you did right, what you did wrong, what you neglected to do, right or wrong, and what you intended to do, right or wrong, your thoughts, convictions, attitude, and behavior. Your karma is like the report card of your life – a summary of your good points and bad points that will hopefully have your account well and truly in the black. But for the fact that we make our home on the Mansion Worlds, not Urantia or Panoptia, we are reincarnated. But for the fact our bodies are physically more advanced … ditto.

“Directly, Teacher Aaron will speak with you and give you details about collective karma. For now I say Adieu and leave you my love and best wishes. This is Samuel the Panoptian.”

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It's one of those things that makes little sense to a "christian boy" unless it is spelled out. :mrgreen:

God bless...
George.

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Re: Karma and Reincarnation.

Post by sammy » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:55 pm

That makes perfect sense to me! It's funny, I have lots of friends who believe in reincarnation, I myself do not. But to view our upcoming "expeditions" as reincarnation...well EUREKA! Perfect sense. Now as for karma...not looking forward to that part :lol:

LOVE!!!!
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Re: Karma and Reincarnation.

Post by Sandy » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:27 am

:lol: Sammy, I'll take your karma any day! ;)

I too think this makes perfect sense. :sunflower:

I found this in the Urantia Book I thought was interesting. It speaks of our many "body tranformations." http://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-sta ... ontia-life
page 541... Paper 48: The Morniontia Life
1. Morontia Materials

(541.4) 48:1.1 The morontia realms are the local universe liaison spheres between the material and spiritual levels of creature existence. This morontia life has been known on Urantia since the early days of the Planetary Prince. From time to time this transition state has been taught to mortals, and the concept, in distorted form, has found a place in present-day religions.

(541.5) 48:1.2 The morontia spheres are the transition phases of mortal ascension through the progression worlds of the local universe. Only the seven worlds surrounding the finaliters’ sphere of the local systems are called mansion worlds, but all fifty-six of the system transition abodes, in common with the higher spheres around the constellations and the universe headquarters, are called morontia worlds. These creations partake of the physical beauty and the morontia grandeur of the local universe headquarters spheres.

(541.6) 48:1.3 All of these worlds are architectural spheres, and they have just double the number of elements of the evolved planets. Such made-to-order worlds not only abound in the heavy metals and crystals, having one hundred physical elements, but likewise have exactly one hundred forms of a unique energy organization called morontia material. The Master Physical Controllers and the Morontia Power Supervisors are able so to modify the revolutions of the primary units of matter and at the same time so to transform these associations of energy as to create this new substance.

(542.1) 48:1.4 The early morontia life in the local systems is very much like that of your present material world, becoming less physical and more truly morontial on the constellation study worlds. And as you advance to the Salvington spheres, you increasingly attain spiritual levels.

(542.2) 48:1.5 The Morontia Power Supervisors are able to effect a union of material and of spiritual energies, thereby organizing a morontia form of materialization which is receptive to the superimposition of a controlling spirit. When you traverse the morontia life of Nebadon, these same patient and skillful Morontia Power Supervisors will successively provide you with 570 morontia bodies, each one a phase of your progressive transformation. From the time of leaving the material worlds until you are constituted a first-stage spirit on Salvington, you will undergo just 570 separate and ascending morontia changes. Eight of these occur in the system, seventy-one in the constellation, and 491 during the sojourn on the spheres of Salvington.

(542.3) 48:1.6 In the days of the mortal flesh the divine spirit indwells you, almost as a thing apart — in reality an invasion of man by the bestowed spirit of the Universal Father. But in the morontia life the spirit will become a real part of your personality, and as you successively pass through the 570 progressive transformations, you ascend from the material to the spiritual estate of creature life.

(542.4) 48:1.7 Paul learned of the existence of the morontia worlds and of the reality of morontia materials, for he wrote, “They have in heaven a better and more enduring substance.” And these morontia materials are real, literal, even as in “the city which has foundations, whose builder and maker is God.” And each of these marvelous spheres is “a better country, that is, a heavenly one.”
How cool is that? 8)
XX Sandy
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Re: Karma and Reincarnation.

Post by 11light11 » Sat Mar 09, 2013 5:32 pm

I find this to be an incredible synchronicity . . .I've just gotten done writing to a friend, who shared about a reincarnation experience he had, in a past-life-regression session. Previously he had shared with me that Midwayer Chief Bzutu had said that in 10,000 years, he's seen not a shred of evidence of reincarnation. This didn't sit well with me for I always felt that we lived many lives . . not to say I ever directly remembered any of mine. But I've experience what I felt to be 'evidence' of reincarnation . . . so I used to sit and ponder this a lot, and try to understand how it might be that we only live one life, when my sense was always that we lived many.

So here my friend, who had asserted that we only live one life, writes and shares with me, that we in fact live many lives, and he experienced one past life quite vividly. I've only just finished reading that message, and am fairly stunned by what he shared . . .

Now I read this amazing message from our Midwayer Friends!

A strange and beautiful synchronicity . . .but it is a strange and beautiful world, no?! :love

Thanks George! :kiss: :sunflower:
with love, Michele

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Re: Karma and Reincarnation.

Post by Sandy » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:21 am

Hi Michele,
A strange and beautiful synchronicity . . .but it is a strange and beautiful world, no?! :love
It is indeed...and think we have just scratched the surface of all that is to come. :bike:

I hailed from a very Christian upbringing so I never thought overly much about reincarnation or how it could even possibly apply to us. So I was shocked,for a moment, like George, on how this message began... and I felt like that little boy in the old television sitcom, "Different Strokes" " :What'chu talkin' 'bout, Samuel!!?" lol: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw9oX-kZ_9k
:loves
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Re: Karma and Reincarnation.

Post by 11light11 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 6:13 pm

I know what you mean, Sandy and George, about how a good Christian boy/girl is floored at the idea of reincarnation! The Bible talks about heaven or hell, not rebirth . . . now I don't know if this is factual, but I've heard people say that some of the works in the Bible, that are kept in the catacombs of the Vatican (and accessible only to the Pope and other extremely high-up people) point to much discussion by Jesus, about reincarnation . . and they took it out of the Bible, because we behave better (and obey laws more strictly) if we fear hell. Again, I don't know if that is true or not. But it does make sense that if you want to keep people in line, invent hell . . I know Jews do not believe in hell. So why did Christians invent hell? That is a funny question I have no answer to. But I once read that the whole story about Lazarus, where Jesus returned from being out of town, to find he'd died, and felt so sad and upset about his friend dying, that he rose him up from the dead . . the whole story was that someone said "Hey, Jesus, why did you raise Lazarus up from the dead? Why not raise up my husband too, or John who died last week?" -- etc.? And supposedly Jesus said (and this has been taken out of the current translation): "Because you might remember him from when he was called ______." I don't remember the "______," but it was an important figure from the Old Testament . . . like Job, or someone like that. Basically Jesus said "I rose Lazarus up from the dead because we needed to keep Job around." (Not that that provides a satisfactory answer -- even Job, or Lazarus, must die someday . . .but it does point to Jesus referencing reincarnation.)

Anyway, again, I have no idea if that is true or not . . but many scholars claim that Jesus did talk about reincarnation, and we simply threw that out. If that is true, whole worlds open up, eh?

It occurs to me as well that God might not have provided Jesus with every single "truth" when he let him be born as a man in this world . . .so even if Jesus did not speak of reincarnation -- he might just not have known about it! Right? I don't know, this is just where my mind goes: in a circle. :lol:

Love to you guys! Thanks for the great discussion! :love Michele :sunflower:

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Re: Karma and Reincarnation.

Post by Sandy » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:36 am

I believe you are right, Michele, when you say that Jesus did not automatically know everything about who he was in the early stages of his life as a mortal...It says on page 1407-8 Paper 128 Jesus early manhood.... http://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-sta ... ly-manhood
(1407.1) 128:0.1 AS JESUS of Nazareth entered upon the early years of his adult life, he had lived, and continued to live, a normal and average human life on earth. Jesus came into this world just as other children come; he had nothing to do with selecting his parents. He did choose this particular world as the planet whereon to carry out his seventh and final bestowal, his incarnation in the likeness of mortal flesh, but otherwise he entered the world in a natural manner, growing up as a child of the realm and wrestling with the vicissitudes of his environment just as do other mortals on this and on similar worlds.

1407.3) 128:0.3 1. The mastering of the experience of living the full life of a human creature in mortal flesh, the completion of his sovereignty in Nebadon.
(1407.4) 128:0.4 2. The revelation of the Universal Father to the mortal dwellers on the worlds of time and space and the more effective leading of these same mortals to a better understanding of the Universal Father.

(1407.5) 128:0.5 All other creature benefits and universe advantages were incidental and secondary to these major purposes of the mortal bestowal.


1. The Twenty-First Year (A.D. 15)


(1407.6) 128:1.1 With the attainment of adult years Jesus began in earnest and with full self-consciousness the task of completing the experience of mastering the knowledge of the life of his lowest form of intelligent creatures, thereby finally and fully earning the right of unqualified rulership of his self-created universe. He entered upon this stupendous task fully realizing his dual nature. But he had already effectively combined these two natures into one — Jesus of Nazareth.

(1407.7) 128:1.2 Joshua ben Joseph knew full well that he was a man, a mortal man, born of woman. This is shown in the selection of his first title, the Son of Man. He was truly a partaker of flesh and blood, and even now, as he presides in sovereign authority over the destinies of a universe, he still bears among his numerous well-earned titles that of Son of Man. It is literally true that the creative Word — the Creator Son — of the Universal Father was “made flesh and dwelt as a man of the realm on Urantia.” He labored, grew weary, rested, and slept. He hungered and satisfied such cravings with food; he thirsted and quenched his thirst with water. He experienced the full gamut of human feelings and emotions; he was “in all things tested, even as you are,” and he suffered and died.

(1407.8) 128:1.3 He obtained knowledge, gained experience, and combined these into wisdom, just as do other mortals of the realm. Until after his baptism he availed himself of no supernatural power. He employed no agency not a part of his human endowment as a son of Joseph and Mary.

(1408.1) 128:1.4 As to the attributes of his prehuman existence, he emptied himself. Prior to the beginning of his public work his knowledge of men and events was wholly self-limited. He was a true man among men.

(1408.2) 128:1.5 It is forever and gloriously true: “We have a high ruler who can be touched with the feeling of our infirmities. We have a Sovereign who was in all points tested and tempted like as we are, yet without sin.” And since he himself has suffered, being tested and tried, he is abundantly able to understand and minister to those who are confused and distressed.

(1408.3) 128:1.6 The Nazareth carpenter now fully understood the work before him, but he chose to live his human life in the channel of its natural flowing. And in some of these matters he is indeed an example to his mortal creatures, even as it is recorded: “Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being of the nature of God, thought it not strange to be equal with God. But he made himself to be of little import and, taking upon himself the form of a creature, was born in the likeness of mankind. And being thus fashioned as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to death, even the death of the cross.”

(1408.4) 128:1.7 He lived his mortal life just as all others of the human family may live theirs, “who in the days of the flesh so frequently offered up prayers and supplications, even with strong feelings and tears, to Him who is able to save from all evil, and his prayers were effective because he believed.” Wherefore it behooved him in every respect to be made like his brethren that he might become a merciful and understanding sovereign ruler over them.

(1408.5) 128:1.8 Of his human nature he was never in doubt; it was self-evident and always present in his consciousness. But of his divine nature there was always room for doubt and conjecture, at least this was true right up to the event of his baptism. The self-realization of divinity was a slow and, from the human standpoint, a natural evolutionary revelation. This revelation and self-realization of divinity began in Jerusalem when he was not quite thirteen years old with the first supernatural occurrence of his human existence; and this experience of effecting the self-realization of his divine nature was completed at the time of his second supernatural experience while in the flesh, the episode attendant upon his baptism by John in the Jordan, which event marked the beginning of his public career of ministry and teaching.

(1408.6) 128:1.9 Between these two celestial visitations, one in his thirteenth year and the other at his baptism, there occurred nothing supernatural or superhuman in the life of this incarnated Creator Son. Notwithstanding this, the babe of Bethlehem, the lad, youth, and man of Nazareth, was in reality the incarnated Creator of a universe; but he never once used aught of this power, nor did he utilize the guidance of celestial personalities, aside from that of his guardian seraphim, in the living of his human life up to the day of his baptism by John. And we who thus testify know whereof we speak.

(1408.7) 128:1.10 And yet, throughout all these years of his life in the flesh he was truly divine. He was actually a Creator Son of the Paradise Father. When once he had espoused his public career, subsequent to the technical completion of his purely mortal experience of sovereignty acquirement, he did not hesitate publicly to admit that he was the Son of God. He did not hesitate to declare, “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.” He made no protest in later years when he was called Lord of Glory, Ruler of a Universe, the Lord God of all creation, the Holy One of Israel, the Lord of all, our Lord and our God, God with us, having a name above every name and on all worlds, the Omnipotence of a universe, the Universe Mind of this creation, the One in whom are hid all treasures of wisdom and knowledge, the fullness of Him who fills all things, the eternal Word of the eternal God, the One who was before all things and in whom all things consist, the Creator of the heavens and the earth, the Upholder of a universe, the Judge of all the earth, the Giver of life eternal, the True Shepherd, the Deliverer of the worlds, and the Captain of our salvation.

(1409.1) 128:1.11 He never objected to any of these titles as they were applied to him subsequent to the emergence from his purely human life into the later years of his self-consciousness of the ministry of divinity in humanity, and for humanity, and to humanity on this world and for all other worlds. Jesus objected to but one title as applied to him: When he was once called Immanuel, he merely replied, “Not I, that is my elder brother.”

(1409.2) 128:1.12 Always, even after his emergence into the larger life on earth, Jesus was submissively subject to the will of the Father in heaven.

(1409.3) 128:1.13 After his baptism he thought nothing of permitting his sincere believers and grateful followers to worship him. Even while he wrestled with poverty and toiled with his hands to provide the necessities of life for his family, his awareness that he was a Son of God was growing; he knew that he was the maker of the heavens and this very earth whereon he was now living out his human existence. And the hosts of celestial beings throughout the great and onlooking universe likewise knew that this man of Nazareth was their beloved Sovereign and Creator-father. A profound suspense pervaded the universe of Nebadon throughout these years; all celestial eyes were continuously focused on Urantia — on Palestine.
I do not think that the Urantia book ever mentions that Jesus spoke of reincarnation either unless it was in a sort of backwards way such as in one of the papers that he and Ganid, a young Indian lad he tutored for two years, wrote as an educational exercise on religions of that age.

Paper 131 The Worlds Religions... http://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-sta ... -religions
(1442.1) 131:0.1 DURING the Alexandrian sojourn of Jesus, Gonod, and Ganid, the young man spent much of his time and no small sum of his father’s money making a collection of the teachings of the world’s religions about God and his relations with mortal man. Ganid employed more than threescore learned translators in the making of this abstract of the religious doctrines of the world concerning the Deities. And it should be made plain in this record that all these teachings portraying monotheism were largely derived, directly or indirectly, from the preachments of the missionaries of Machiventa Melchizedek, who went forth from their Salem headquarters to spread the doctrine of one God — the Most High — to the ends of the earth.

(1442.2) 131:0.2 There is presented herewith an abstract of Ganid’s manuscript, which he prepared at Alexandria and Rome, and which was preserved in India for hundreds of years after his death. He collected this material under ten heads, as follows:
Okay this is a little blip in the paper entitled Hinduism.
(1449.2) 131:4.7 “God is our Father, the earth our mother, and the universe our birthplace. Without God the soul is a prisoner; to know God releases the soul. By meditation on God, by union with him, there comes deliverance from the illusions of evil and ultimate salvation from all material fetters. When man shall roll up space as a piece of leather, then will come the end of evil because man has found God. O God, save us from the threefold ruin of hell — lust, wrath, and avarice! O soul, gird yourself for the spirit struggle of immortality! When the end of mortal life comes, hesitate not to forsake this body for a more fit and beautiful form and to awake in the realms of the Supreme and Immortal, where there is no fear, sorrow, hunger, thirst, or death. To know God is to cut the cords of death. The God-knowing soul rises in the universe like the cream appears on top of the milk. We worship God, the all-worker, the Great Soul, who is ever seated in the heart of his creatures. And they who know that God is enthroned in the human heart are destined to become like him — immortal. Evil must be left behind in this world, but virtue follows the soul to heaven.
I really love this part in the Urantia book where Jesus is traveling with this young Indian boy and his Father...It is very inspiring, reading about jesus's dealings with those he passed by, the way he gently ministered to their needs with simple love. I have always wondered how Christianity spread so rapidly all along the Mediterranean Sea so rapidly during the life of the apostles. and the answer sort of lies within these pages because it is in the pre ministry travels with Gonid and Ganid that Jesus met many individuals who would in later days be instrumental in the early Christian church. None of them realized when they heard the news of the great Teacher Jesus that he was one and the same man they had met, admired and called by various names offering inspiration to them with his living words. It was Jesus who Himself planted the seeds for the work of the Apostles much later. 8)

I am getting off topic though aren’t I? :lol: I always get carried away once I start looking here and there in the Ubook. You may not believe it but despite all the quotes already there were many I almost but didn’t post. ;)

I guess for me, after reading the Urantia Book, the idea of reincarnation seems less important than the ideals the Master taught in regards to communing with God, learning to know and Love our God who is the very essence of Love itself. Because within Love is everything we need to know...and because of that I would doubt in the short time Jesus spent on earth that He, Himself, ever preached the doctrine of reincarnation. He didn’t preach doctrines... or even mores as John the Baptist did. He fulfilled the tenets of his Bestowal and gave the people the elixir of life...what they really needed in mortal form. What these men and women of 2000 years ago and the men and women of today truly need is one and the same and is timeless...To open your heart to Love and know you are so Loved by the Creator of all. With soul felt understanding of that unconditional Love we can peacefully lay down in death when it is our time, trusting that the being who is Love will take care of our eternal souls in the very best of all possible ways.
Okay enough out of me... :kiss:
Love,
Sandy
Shoot, I was just about to submit this and I had a thought...Jesus, more than likely spoke of the mansion worlds with his apostles. The Ubook says several times that they had some difficulty in understanding some of his teachings which were much more in depth with his Apostles and Disciples than with the crowds who came to here him preach. It may be possible that something of this nature may have made it into the letters and maybe even the gospels...but we need to keep in mind that that it is also quite possible that even in this early stage of the Christian faith the messages were already becoming convoluted, something that caused divisions in the early followers of Jesus and led to splits in the organization of the early communities and churches. People are people no matter what age we live in eh? :lol:
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Re: Karma and Reincarnation.

Post by 11light11 » Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:18 pm

People are people no matter what age we live in, eh?
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Truth!!!

You know it's funny. In my "Cultural Awareness" course, in my social work program, the instructor took us to spend time at a Hindu Temple, a Muslim Mosque, a Jewish Synogogue -- any type of worship center that varied from our Christian upbringing. In each instance a leader of that faith spoke with our class, and informed us on beliefs, systems, and so on.

When we went to the Muslim Mosque I got a shock -- the gentleman shared with us that in the Qur'an, much devotion was made to Jesus' life, which he contrasted with the New Testament, which spoke little of Jesus' life, and more about his birth, and then his death -- with a smattering of stories in between. He said "Why not focus on his life, if he is the reason for a faith tradition?" And went on to share that Muslims do not take Jesus as their "Savior," but as an important teacher (prophet), just as they did with Mohammed. He said "If you want to read many stories of Jesus' actual life, try the Qur'an." So that was news to me -- and would be surprising to the many folks in the USA who regard this ancient faith tradition with suspicion. I wish the news media would report on that fact, and encourage a bit more peaceful sentiments!

In any case, when you reference these passages from the U-Book, that deal with Jesus, I am reminded of this topic. Yes, we have the story of Jesus wandering away from his parents when he is 12, and frightening them . . the wedding where he turned water into wine and produced fish and loaves of bread . . he walked on water, rose Lazarus from the dead . .but then is dying on the cross. I never heard of his young Indian disciples, neither Gonid nor Ganid, and the things youv'e posted are all news to me. It reminds me of what that gentleman said at the Mosque . .if you are going to base an entire faith tradition around one person, you might as well share as much about that person as there is to know! So this was very interesting to me -- thanks Sandy!

I appreciate how you said that "the idea of reincarnation seems less important than the ideals the Master taught in regards to communing with God, learning to know and Love our God who is the very essence of Love itself." I'm with ya. I think the reason I find it compelling, is similar to the idea of why I like the Buddhist concept, of the "Wheel of Life." They look at it like life keeps presenting lessons to us, until we master that lesson. You will be hit over the head, over and over again, until you finally do not need that lesson anymore and you can move into new areas of growth within the soul (or within the personality/self you were born to, in this life and world). But if you die -- and still have work left to do in a particular area (or many areas), your next life will begin with that lesson. It is like a progression. So to me there is a lot of hope in that concept, that you don't remain flailing around, unadvanced and unprepared, once you cross over to the Mansion worlds . . . you have 'worked out the kinks' through many lives, perhaps, and have worked through many lessons, advancing as you progress.

For some reason, in this life (assuming I have more than one ;) ), I have a great interest in 'lessons.' The work I did in therapy, and assist others with, now that I'm a therapist, is virtually identical to that Buddhist idea of the "Wheel of Life." I saw it happen in so many clients . . . someone, for instance, would identify that he is seeking "Validation," as he attempts to sell paintings, get hung in museums, or get a professorship at an important art school. . .he came to realize that the reason he is never satisfied with any of the 'success' he's had, is because he still needs this "validation," which he never got from his father. Suddenly, one thing after the next comes up (here in this life and time ;) ) that presents him with that issue: Validation. The sister will call up and ridicule that he only works at a "community college." He'll apply for a professorship and neglect to even get a "No" in response -- his application is ignored. He submits entries to a gallery owner and is told "We don't think your work suits our needs."

So suddenly, in the absence of external "Validation," there is a new opportunity to ask "What does my art work mean to me?" Because surely one does not create solely to meet others' approval . . . and through inner work, watching his own reactions to this "lack of validation," he is able to grow beyond "needing it" -- or seeking it.

So suddenly he's moved on and past "validation," and new issues arise, and new areas within the self are explored, and the self-actualization process continues. Osho called it the "Crystalization of the soul."

Life is so short that it seems to me that it would take far longer than one life to continue on in this manner . . I often think that all this work is leading us toward leaving our ego ideal behind, to find the freedom to experience life in its simplicity (and complexity) without tying it back into "ME" all the time. ;) A tall order. So that is partly the reason I find the idea of reincarnation appealing . . because it gives us more time!!! To do all that!!! :lol: So you see I have my own personal bias, as a therapy-goer and therapy-doer. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: LOL.

Thanks so much for the excellent quotes, Sandy . . .you are so interesting to me, and I love the way you know just what section of the U-Book to pull from!!!

Love to you, Michele :loves :sunflower: :kiss:

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