Is the universe an illusion?

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Yoder777
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Is the universe an illusion?

Post by Yoder777 » Sat May 09, 2015 10:35 pm

Hinduism teaches that the universe is the unfolding of Brahman, the universe absolute, and not the solid state that we perceive it as. Can this be compared to what the Urantia Book says about the Supreme Being? Is the evolving universe the unfolding manifestation of the Supreme Being?

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Re: Is the universe an illusion?

Post by Geoff » Sun May 10, 2015 12:05 am

Dear Yoder,

Nothing is as it seems. Nothing material is "real", where real means eternal. But its real enough to deliver a great teaching platform, and that is its purpose. An illusion is reincarnation, because an illusion is something that appears to be one thing, but is not. I don't think the universe is an illusion, its just not as solid as we assume. Its all spaces with a small amount of matter.

But unless you learn the lessons, you don't get to experience the eternal realms.

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Re: Is the universe an illusion?

Post by overmind » Mon May 11, 2015 3:22 am

Yoder777 wrote:Hinduism teaches that the universe is the unfolding of Brahman, the universe absolute, and not the solid state that we perceive it as. Can this be compared to what the Urantia Book says about the Supreme Being? Is the evolving universe the unfolding manifestation of the Supreme Being?
The evolving universe, or more specifically, those who inhabit it, help the Supreme Being grow. The Supreme Being is in the business of collecting experience, not universe building. It also does not relate to Brahman (or at least what you have stated) because the Supreme is not an absolute.

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Re: Is the universe an illusion?

Post by Geoff » Mon May 11, 2015 4:31 am

overmind wrote:
The evolving universe, or more specifically, those who inhabit it, help the Supreme Being grow. The Supreme Being is in the business of collecting experience, not universe building. It also does not relate to Brahman (or at least what you have stated) because the Supreme is not an absolute.
I am not game to claim that i know all the business of the Prime Source. But I do think that there is a distinction between the Creator, and Creation. And while I don't know much about Hindu beliefs, the OP's statement sounds as though they do not believe in "creation", only a "creator". Or alternatively they believe all of creation is the Creator. And I would not agree with either of those perspectives.

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Re: Is the universe an illusion?

Post by Welles » Mon May 11, 2015 4:13 pm

Here's a thought for this discussion.

“The genius of a composer is found in the notes of his music; but analyzing the notes will not reveal his genius. The poet’s greatness is contained in his words; yet the study of his words will not disclose his inspiration. God reveals himself in creation; but scrutinize creation as minutely as you wish, you will not find God, any more than you will find the soul through careful examination of your body.” — Anthony de Mello

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Re: Is the universe an illusion?

Post by Sandy » Tue May 12, 2015 9:37 am

Love that quote, Welles! :thumright:
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Re: Is the universe an illusion?

Post by happyrain » Tue May 12, 2015 5:47 pm

that is a lovely quote welles, thanks :hithere

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Re: Is the universe an illusion?

Post by Yoder777 » Fri May 15, 2015 5:42 am

Physics is telling us that all matter is made up of energy, and that at the subatomic level, matter has no solid form.

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Re: Is the universe an illusion?

Post by inho » Fri May 15, 2015 11:16 pm

I think the universe could be an illusion but I believe it doesn't really matter whether it's real or not.
Because our life experiences in this universe is very real and that's what matters.
The struggles, experiences, relationships.. they are all so real and have eternal values.
For example for someone like Van Gogh the artist who dedicated his life to Art (painting)
All of those paintings might not be so real to him anymore but all the hard-work, devotion, and what he learned through dedicating himself to art (his skills, artistry) is very real (has eternal value) and will stay with him forever because he earned it through all the struggles.

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Re: Is the universe an illusion?

Post by Sandy » Sat May 16, 2015 3:31 am

You know, Inho, that was a great example, using Vincent Van Gough like that... I truly hadn't thought about it specifically in regards to His life in particular...(He has always been a sympathetic character to me) but he certainly did learn some pretty strong/important life lessons along the way. Giving your all to something, despite any obstacle...I can see where that would stand him well and us too in eternity.
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Re: Is the universe an illusion?

Post by Welles » Sat May 16, 2015 3:55 pm

That's a great answer, inho. :cheers:

I'll offer another point of view. The origin of the illusion idea were folks who disciplined themselves so intensely that they were able to manifest seeming miracles. Of course their followers remembered them in a slightly exaggerated form to enhance their own presumed illumination. That's just normal human stuff. A little fudge here and there and before you know it someone is a saint.

Anyway most of the folks who have asserted to me that all is illusion have driven cars, watched TV, lived in comparative luxury (certainly not poverty), didn't do physical labor as part of their livelihood, shopped in grocery stores and believed in mysticism but not a Creator. It seems to me the idea that all is illusion is an intellectual escape route enhanced by an emotional attachment to the sense that one knows the secret of the universe. If you follow it to a logical conclusion... if all is illusion then the illusion that it is an illusion is an illusion.
:bana:
Here's my perspective. The Creator is the source of all. I'll think of the created universe as his self-created body that is maintained by an eternal outpouring of energy. In short the entire universe is a state of continuous creation. There is a purpose. Our physical plane has a purpose. It is upheld by the constant emergence of energy and pattern that is admittedly transformed downward through many agents. However at the heart of it all is the Creator. Without that Being there would be nothing. Therefore the world we live in is just as real as God. It's just quite distant so it is a bit more tenuous.

You can test my assertion that 'the world is an illusion' is an intellectual postulate and no more real than that. I'll bet you can't hold it in your heart.

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