Meher Baba

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Meher Baba

Post by Yoder777 » Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:21 pm

I am very fond of the teacher Meher Baba, who blended teachings of Sufism, Hinduism and Christianity. Meher Baba was really popular among young people in the West in the 1960s. He specifically ministered to the hippie generation, explaining that drugs were not the answer.

When a teacher like Ramakrishna or Meher Baba is claimed to be an avatar, God in human form living among us, what does that mean in relation to the Urantia Book? Are people deceived or self-deluded about these teachers or is there a line of human manifestations of God that the urantia book, for whatever reason, does not mention?

The Urantia Book says that people physically disappear from this world when they attain union with God, because they no longer need their human bodies. Is it possible that certain holy people, certain adjuster-fused mortals, are an exception to this for the betterment of mankind, similar to how the Bodhisattva in Buddhism chooses to stay in this world for the Enlightenment of all people?

This is a documentary film on the life and teachings of Meher Baba:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAXKO6Puw8E

I am particularly intrigued by Maher Baba, since he took a vow of silence for the last decades of his life. He claimed the purpose of his silence was so humanity would judge his teachings by his deeds, instead of his words.

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Re: Meher Baba

Post by Welles » Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:36 pm

Yoder777 wrote:When a teacher like Ramakrishna or Meher Baba is claimed to be an avatar, God in human form living among us, what does that mean in relation to the Urantia Book?

Nothing, really. Seeing as we are all God in human form making a distinction of those folks as a sort of separate group is a mistake, I believe. It is true, however, that Meher Baba and others on this planet do achieve a greater degree of relative 'divinity'. People in their presence tend to open themselves and at least momentarily receive a greater flow of the cosmic Love that they have learned to access. It is a creative power that does provide a spiritual boost to those around them. The downside of recognized Masters is the tendency of followers to create emotional dependencies and ultimately glorify their spiritual accomplishment by making them seem more than human. In a way that divorces the follower from recognizing that they too have a similar capacity that is as yet to be further developed.

I think it is as simple as, "open your heart." By the time you figure out the magnitude of that reality you will be your own Meher Baba. I'm follower of the you can do it yourself school.

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Re: Meher Baba

Post by Geoff » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:54 pm

I used to think that the late Sai Baba was an avatar, and in fact a comment that George once made added weight to that. But it made no sense that he died ten years before he predicted he would. That, IMHO would not be an avatar. More recently then we received a communication from Yogananda's guru, Sri Yukteswar to the effect that Sai Baba had only reached the fourth Mansion World. That really surprised me*, but caused me to learn that the ability to understand and use certain Laws such as the Law of Creation does not indicate spiritual advancement. And in a book I am preparing for distribution I learned that the ability to biolocate is a GIFT, not something that people learn to do. So I think that we easily ascribe very high status to people based on amazing things they can do, yet this may be no indication of that advanced spiritual status.

We have also heard from Meher Baba and its clear he was not an avatar either, and in fact this belief of his caused him some issues, but that he is now fused. Many gurus out of the sub-continent have learned of the Divine Love via personal practice and experience (bliss), yet do not teach of it intellectually. The result of this is that the followers of Meher Maba are unable to emulate his spiritual development. We know that this is the fastest way to advance, (from the communications that have been received) yet almost no one who is outside this small circle knows that, and even fewer practise it. When you consider all the millions who genuinely sincerely wish to advance spiritually, the fact that they are ignorant of the fastest way to proceed is quite sad.

Note *. I know of at least three who passed higher, and one was Mother Teresa.

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Re: Meher Baba

Post by Geoff » Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:59 pm

Welles wrote: I'm follower of the you can do it yourself school.

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That is 100% correct, and what is meant to happen. There can be some value in learning from a guru, but all too many of these guys actually can't articulate WHY they are the way they are.

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Re: Meher Baba

Post by Yoder777 » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:03 am

Geoff wrote:
We have also heard from Meher Baba and its clear he was not an avatar either
Please elaborate.
Geoff wrote: We have also heard from Meher Baba and its clear he was not an avatar either, and in fact this belief of his caused him some issues, but that he is now fused. Many gurus out of the sub-continent have learned of the Divine Love via personal practice and experience (bliss), yet do not teach of it intellectually.
Have you read Meher Baba's books that he wrote? Were they not of an intellectual nature?

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Re: Meher Baba

Post by Yoder777 » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:05 am

Geoff wrote:
Welles wrote: I'm follower of the you can do it yourself school.

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That is 100% correct, and what is meant to happen. There can be some value in learning from a guru, but all too many of these guys actually can't articulate WHY they are the way they are.

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In his youth, he had no mystical inclinations or experiences, and was "ntroubled as yet by a sense of his own destiny..."[29] He was more interested in sports and was co-captain of his high school cricket team. At the age of 19, during his second year at Deccan College in Pune, he met a very old Muslim woman who was locally revered as a saint, named Hazrat Babajan, who kissed him on the forehead. The event affected him profoundly, leaving him visibly dazed, and he gave up his normal activities.[30][31] After that he contacted other spiritual figures, who, along with Babajan, he later said were the five "Perfect Masters" of the age: Tajuddin Baba, Narayan Maharaj, Sai Baba of Shirdi, and Upasni Maharaj.[32]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meher_Baba

In May 1913, Merwan Sheriar Irani, then nineteen years old, was riding his bicycle on the way to class at Deccan College, when he looked up and saw an old woman sitting under a neem tree surrounded by a crowd. He had cycled past on previous occasions but had never paid much attention to her, though he was aware that she was regarded by some as a Muslim saint; yet others thought her “a mad woman or a witch or sorceress.”[21] His father, Sheriar Irani, held Babajan in high regard.[22] Born into a Zoroastrian family, Sheriar Irani had been an itinerant dervish for a number of years[23] before finally settling in Pune and marrying. Babajan beckoned Merwan, who in turn was drawn towards her. For several months thereafter Merwan Irani would visit the saint; they would sit together yet seldom spoke. One night during January 1914, he was about to leave, and before doing so kissed Babajan’s hands, and she in turn held his face in her hands. She then kissed him on the forehead,[24] during which he received her spiritual grace (barakah).[25] The event subsequently left Merwan Irani in an enraptured state in which he remained abstracted from his normal surroundings for nearly nine months.[26] The young man would later become known as Meher Baba.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hazrat_Babajan
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Re: Meher Baba

Post by Yoder777 » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:08 am

Though I am not personally a devotee of Meher Baba, I am honestly intrigued and fascinated by him.

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Re: Meher Baba

Post by Geoff » Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:47 am

Yoder777 wrote:
Have you read Meher Baba's books that he wrote? Were they not of an intellectual nature?
That is EXACTLY the problem. I might ask you if you have read the Padgett Messages because they very clearly explain there are two spiritual paths ONLY? One intellectual, and the other one of the soul. Intellectual means of the mortal mind, the soul we call "heart" or love, but it requires a special Love, that obtained by approaching the Creator in LOVE frequently in meditation. You will find this matter covered in messages the 11:11 group distribute, even though they have not so far, as best I am aware, articulated the "two path" concept. In that message which I linked, but which perhaps you did not follow, answers your two questions. The message is from Michael, and he says this:
Jesus wrote:On Earth, he had considerable development in Divine Love. It was this that gave him that shining charisma that set him apart. But as you well know, he was not God, as he thought he was.

He discovered his tragic mistake shortly after he became a spirit. He also discovered the source of his radiance - the Divine Love.

He is now safely in the Celestial Heavens. But his erroneous belief did retard his progress; it also stimulated him to seek further, and he thus found the truth of the Divine pathway.
I have not studied Meher Baba, simply because I discovered Yogananda and Sai Baba first. I studied both of them very closely. I did initially accept Sai Baba to be an avatar, and I did find him stating as his highest Truth - Love for God. Yet it seems even though he articulated that Truth, he did not realise how it was he came to have this spiritual radiance. He attributed that instead to being God, a typical mindal error. Ego if you like. And even though he had a million followers, I have yet to hear of any approaching his level of development. So they could admire him it seems, but not actually discover how it was he was that way and emulate it.

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Re: Meher Baba

Post by Yoder777 » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:16 am

Geoff wrote: That is EXACTLY the problem. I might ask you if you have read the Padgett Messages because they very clearly explain there are two spiritual paths ONLY? One intellectual, and the other one of the soul.
How was Meher Baba message's not about love and the good of the soul? Please forgive me if I'm missing something. You're claiming that there's something lacking in Meher Baba's teachings or mode of teaching, but you aren't naming anything specific in his words or actions that would indicate such a deficiency. If you haven't read his books, how did you receive the knowledge that his teachings were lacking in something that you so far haven't specifically explained?

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Re: Meher Baba

Post by Geoff » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:22 am

Yes I am claiming there is something lacking. As you like the Urantia Book I will quote what I believe is the single most important paragraph in the whole 2000 pages:
Mortal man cannot possibly know the infinitude of the heavenly Father. Finite mind cannot think through such an absolute truth or fact. But this same finite human being can actually feel--literally experience--the full and undiminished impact of such an infinite Father's LOVE. Such a love can be truly experienced, albeit while quality of experience is unlimited, quantity of such an experience is strictly limited by the human capacity for spiritual receptivity and by the associated capacity to love the Father in return.

Paper 3 - The Attributes of God
This is how you achieve the New Birth - being reborn of spirit. I know the Ubook does not say anything about that, but absence of a Truth does not indicate the Truth is false. I cant make it plainer than to suggest you read the P Messages. I have linked you to several sub sections, and I have no idea if you read them and did not understand, or did not read them. This is about EXPERIENTIAL spirituality, not intellectual stuff. Here is my attempt to make that EXPERIENCE as simple as possible. If you feel BLISS, you got it.

How to FEEL the Love of God.

By the way, this is the essential part of Yogananda's Kriya Yoga, as HE taught it. As it is now a closed society, and the teachings are secret, I don't know if they still work. I have the written part of their year long "course" and it has nothing of any real value, but I believe the "initiation" is done one on one, and not having experienced it, or found anyone who explained it, in spite of buying books that claim to explain it, I just don't know.

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Re: Meher Baba

Post by Geoff » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:23 am

Yoder777 wrote:If you haven't read his books, how did you receive the knowledge that his teachings were lacking in something that you so far haven't specifically explained?
Actually the Master himself made that claim. Its in the message, and its very clear.

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Re: Meher Baba

Post by Yoder777 » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:26 am

Geoff wrote:Yes I am claiming there is something lacking. As you like the Urantia Book I will quote what I believe is the single most important paragraph in the whole 2000 pages:
Mortal man cannot possibly know the infinitude of the heavenly Father. Finite mind cannot think through such an absolute truth or fact. But this same finite human being can actually feel--literally experience--the full and undiminished impact of such an infinite Father's LOVE. Such a love can be truly experienced, albeit while quality of experience is unlimited, quantity of such an experience is strictly limited by the human capacity for spiritual receptivity and by the associated capacity to love the Father in return.

Paper 3 - The Attributes of God
This is how you achieve the New Birth - being reborn of spirit. I know the Ubook does not say anything about that, but absence of a Truth does not indicate the Truth is false. I cant make it plainer than to suggest you read the P Messages. I have linked you to several sub sections, and I have no idea if you read them and did not understand, or did not read them. This is about EXPERIENTIAL spirituality, not intellectual stuff. Here is my attempt to make that EXPERIENCE as simple as possible. If you feel BLISS, you got it.

How to FEEL the Love of God.

By the way, this is the essential part of Yoganandas' Kriya Yoga, as HE taught it. As it is now a closed society, and the teaching are secret, I don't know if they still work.

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What specifically about Meher Baba's teachings reflected a lack of love or a lack of experiential spirituality? You're not showing that you know anything about his specific teachings to comment on them.

In fact, Meher Baba's message was rooted in love for all mankind, love for God, and the direct spiritual experience which leads to the personal realization of this love:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAXKO6Puw8E

Please show me specifically how Meher Baba's life and message reflected a lack of emphasis on God's love and direct spiritual experience.

It's one thing to say he wasn't the human incarnation of God for this age, as he was claimed to be. That's a matter of personal belief. It's another thing to make claims about his life and teachings without providing any basis from his life and teachings to back up the claims.
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Re: Meher Baba

Post by Geoff » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:31 am

I give up.

go in peace.
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Re: Meher Baba

Post by Yoder777 » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:33 am

I am sorry that you are giving up, but it doesn't appear that you tried to show specifically what in Meher Baba's life and teachings reflected a lack of emphasis on God's love and direct spiritual experience. All I've seen so far is unsubstantiated claims without specific reference to anything Meher Baba said or did.

Please keep in mind that I am not a devotee of Meher Baba and therefore have nothing to lose by you demonstrating what specifically was missing in his life and teachings. I am honestly curious about what information you have to share, other than so far unsubstantiated claims. It is not fair or wise to simply make claims about a deficiency in someone's teaching without explaining what specifically in his teachings is deficient.

If you claim that his life and message lacked emphasis on God's love and direct spiritual experience, please show me where and how he lacked such an emphasis. I would ask the same fairness for any spiritual teacher that you make claims about, whether those claims are positive or negative.

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Re: Meher Baba

Post by Geoff » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:46 am

I don't believe I can communicate with you effectively. I don't know why that is. I linked you to a communication from the Master commenting on Meher Baba. Did you read it? If you read it, did you understand it? Because thats all I needed to know that Meher Baba could not instruct any of his followers if he himself was unaware of how he came to have a significant amount of Divine Love in his soul. If he only discovered post death, then it follows he did not understand, even though his soul knew, and his soul had a very considerable amount of Divine Love in it. The Paggett Messages reflect Jesus' teachings over a 9 year period, 2,500 communications, and most people who are willing to read them do get it. Not all, but most. While you can advance spiritually following an intellectual path (Buddhism is a perfect example) that is not the path that Jesus took. His path was experiential. And to add something that most followers of the Urantia book would deny, this is a big deal, because you cant fuse without being reborn of spirit.

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Re: Meher Baba

Post by Yoder777 » Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:52 am

I understand that you have some channeled messages you'd like to share with me, and I appreciate your belief in them, but what I am wondering is whether you have your own opinion of Meher Baba's life and teachings based on your own personal study of his life and work. I am sorry if I am not communicating effectively, but I don't know how to make it any clearer than that. I mean no disrespect in asking your own personal opinion based on your own personal knowledge of his life and work.

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Re: Meher Baba

Post by Geoff » Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:03 am

No I don't have any experience personally of Meher Baba, and given the information from the Master, I don't plan to study them. Why would I devote a whole lot of time to someone who did not get it. In the Master's opinion that is.

The only real reason I did study Sai Baba and Yogananda was to try and discover other teachers (other than Jesus) who experienced and taught about Divine Love. I did find that with Yogananda, and I expected that Sai Baba, even if he did not so teach, was on that path. But it seems he was not. My search for such examples was merely to prove to myself that Truth can be found other places than in the Padgett Messages, and I only pursued it for a few years. I no longer have any need to find further examples. I would also say that the Sufis PRACTICE this, but have no specific teachings of it. They cannot really teach outside of the Koran, which had no such content. I know that from the prophet himself.

We do seem to be on very different pages, and perhaps that is the real issue.

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Re: Meher Baba

Post by Yoder777 » Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:58 pm

I think that, on the topic on Meher Baba, we may need to respectfully agree to disagree. I am not a devotee of his work, so I can't comment too much on it. I can say that when you look at pictures of him or watch old films, he has such a welcoming, peaceful and loving demeanor:

Image

Image

These pictures don't prove that Meher Baba was divine, but I do think he had a very real personal experience of the divine, which he made his lifework to share out of love for mankind.

What do you think of the allegations that Sathya Sai Baba molested children? He's probably the most revered spiritual teacher in India today, despite the decades of allegations made against him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlL_CDqFCLg

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Re: Meher Baba

Post by Yoder777 » Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:01 pm

Is it possible that purported avatars are, at least in some cases, really Trinity Teacher Sons or some other order of descending sons of God?

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Re: Meher Baba

Post by Yoder777 » Fri May 15, 2015 5:06 am

I know this is an old thread, but all I was trying to say is that, like Adam, Melchizedek and Jesus, I think that certain persons in modern times may have been divine incarnations. I can't say who exactly was a divine being in human form, but I at least acknowledge the possibility. In a sense, we are all divine beings in human form, since we all have Adjusters, but I think you know what I mean.

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