Theosophy and Helena Blavatsky

[Yoder777]

Can someone please tell me about their experience of reading books related to Theosophy, such as the writings of Helen Blavatsky or Alice Bailey? There are some similarities between Theosophy and the Urantia Book, such as belief in a celestial hierarchy, the spark of the divine within, spiritual evolution, the promise of a coming golden age of world peace, etc.

[Welles]

Hi Yoder,

About 45 years ago I began inhaling all sorts of spiritual texts. I went from cold to jumping in with both feet. I remember reading a number of Alice Bailey, Helena Blavatsky and Annie Bessant tomes but the only names that stand out in my memory are AB's "Treatise on Cosmic Fire" and HB's "The Secret Doctrine" although I must have read a dozen or more. I had the chance to see Krishnamurti live in Berkeley about 1970. If you study the history of the Theosophy movement you'll find that in a real way he was the evolution of that movement.

Anyway, although I never became a follower and much of the time secretly thought it was a bunch of drivel, I learned one huge lesson from all my study of esoteric thought. Intuition. I remember reading the "Treatise on Cosmic Fire" several times, really working hard to try and gain some glimmer of meaning. My life to that time was more oriented toward science and the 'ratonal' material world so this stuff was out there. About the third reading I had a breakthrough when suddenly it started making sense. I had hit the point of study in which I had enough points of reference that the spark leapt between them and created a field of understanding. It was a wonder.

The peculiar thing is that even with that event the Theosophists still didn't hold much attraction for me because the 'knowledge' never quite touched down to earth and I've never gotten rid of a strong practical streak. Actually I don't wish to. A few years later when I ran into the Urantia Book that experience of knowing how to study until I had created a field of understanding stood me in good stead. The first time I read it I was pretty vague about the first couple of hundred pages. I worked at them for sixteen hours a day for ten days straight to achieve a mere a glimmer of understanding. That became more firmly rooted in reality as I read the full text in 30 days. No text has been as life changing for me as the UB. I should that experience trumps the UB, though.

So the time I spent studying Theosophy was incredibly valuable but not because of their ideas so much as the experience of trying to understand them.


Welles

[Yoder777]

Another similarity I forgot to mention is the Blavatsky and the Urantia Book both focus a great deal on the origin of human races. What explains these similarities that I've mentioned so far, and others that may come to mind later? Is it just by meaningless coincidence, did one borrow from the other, or do they happen to describe the same realities in different ways?

[Geoff]

Hi Yoder,

You may like to read what Blavatsky had to say after she passed:

http://new-birth.net/misc/misc12.htm

Blavatsky died well before the publication of the Urantia book. The Ubook of course was willing to source existing truth wherever it could be found. Here is another communication from a former follower of hers

http://new-birth.net/misc/misc11.htm

While there are still Theosophists to this day, I have never found anything that resonated there. Again its a reincarnation belief and as such I find they waste a lot of time on stuff that is meaningless. IMHO.

hugs
Geoff

[Yoder777]

I like their approach to truth, to follow your intellect and heart rather than outside human authorities. In the beginning of the Secret Doctrine, Blavatsky basically says keep what works for you and leave the rest.

[Geoff]

Well actually the mind and the soul are two quite different things, and the only one that has an ability to discern truth in the absence of any other input, is the soul. Which we often call the heart, simply because there is a very close physical connection. The mind works on building a "structure" of logic, but if the base elements are wrong, the entire edifice can be faulty.

hugs
Geoff

[Yoder777]

Are there any spiritual teachers or books that teach reincarnation that you otherwise benefit from despite their teaching reincarnation?

[Geoff]

Well I have learned things from such books, but they are generally odd snippets of information. The problem that I find is because they believe many of their current tricky issues stem from a past life, it tends to place the responsibility in the wrong place. However I would agree that Buddhism has extremely fine teachings about what I would call developing natural love, when they focus on this life, as they tend to.

hugs
Geoff

[Yoder777]

The way I understand it, the Urantia Book teaches reincarnation, but on an interplanetary scale, an interplanetary reincarnation. So when I look at other books that teach reincarnation, I see that as having only partial knowledge of what the Urantia Book more fully reveals about the next life. Either way, the point is that we will live many lifetimes for the development and perfection of our souls and union with God.

[Geoff]

aah this comes to the accepted definition of reincarnation, and I don't accept that you are correct in either case.

The definition of reincarnation, no matter whether you are saying its an earth thing, or involves other "planets", is a philosophy of repeating a cycle, until you have been perfected. The Eastern folks are big that once you have finished with earth and break the cycle you are in nirvana. We know from spirit communication that is extremely far from the truth, and a great many humans actually regress while here.

Now taking earth, if you actually know something about the things we have to learn over our spirit career, its a ridiculous notion to consider that can be achieved here. Even the fact that it is possible to reach fusion while on earth, but thats just ground zero of Celestial progression, its not by the remotest chance perfection.

Now to take the Urantia book that explains we progress to different spirit spheres, as do many other sources, this is exactly because we have learned all we can learn at that one sphere level, and we move somewhere else to learn different lessons. The books that I am currently reading, and which I will shortly turn into Kindle books - the series The Life Beyond the Veil, make this aspect very clear. Probably in that respect they are unusual.

Then there is the fact that while we do get ever more etherealised, and more filled with light, a process the Urantia book describes as getting different moronity bodies, we never lose consciousness and never start again with no memory of what we achieved, which is clearly an aspect of the belief in reincarnation, even if some people claim they can recall "past lives".

So rather than saying we will have many lifetimes, I think it would be better to say we will have many experiences.

But, there is one aspect of reincarnation that I think is accurate, but in respect of the Mansion Worlds. You can be stuck at a given level, if you refuse to change a belief system that is significant. In other words, you get stuck and cant progress till you actually "learn". That aspect is pretty much the notion of repeating a lesson till you get it right.

hugs
Geoff

[Yoder777]

I think we might be having a difference of semantics. Beginning a new life on a mansion world, the life later ending, and then being re-personalized on the next mansion world would be moving from one lifetime to another.

The purpose from one mansion world to the next is the further development of the individual's spiritual nature, similar to how believers in reincarnation see its purpose as the further development of one's soul.

For example, if you took Meher Baba's concept of involution and applied it to the mansion worlds, instead of insisting that it must involve reincarnation in this world, the concept would still make sense:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNEkQmxM4d0

[Geoff]

I think we might be having a difference of semantics. Beginning a new life on a mansion world, the life later ending, and then being re-personalized on the next mansion world would be moving from one lifetime to another.

aagh yes, I can see where you are coming from. But its more than semantics I fear. Regrettably I have never found anything to support what the Ubook claims happens on death, nor what happens progressing between spheres as "depersonalising on moving between spheres." In fact quite the opposite, and particularly since we can in an OBE state as living humans reach any Mansion World depending on our current level of spiritual development. So I would have a very different perspective - a seamless perspective - rather than some sort of disruptive process. That book I recommended, in Volume two actually describes what happened to the narrator, and it supports the view expressed elsewhere, of seamless progression, even though it can be occasioned at a gathering of folks and celebrated as a progression. If the Urantia book is pretty much your only or main source, then perhaps I am not the person to be discussing things with. I have read hundreds of these books, and republished several dozen.

But, the fusion process I would see as a very different issue. I gather its a secret process, and so I have actually never read anything that describes that - moving beyond Mansion 7 to the Celestial.

I will have a look at that Youtube later, cant do it now sadly.

hugs
Geoff

[Yoder777]

All I am asking is if you see the similarities between what the Urantia Book teaches regarding the afterlife and what New Age/Hinduism/etc. teaches regarding reincarnation as a path of spiritual development.

I look at what new agers are getting at and then, like the Urantia Book, apply it to an interplanetary scale. I can forgive these writers for teaching reincarnation and being focused only on rebirth in this world, since they haven't received the higher truths on these matters from the Urantia Book.

But even though we have a disagreement as to the nature of the afterlife, I can still learn from other things that Blavatsky, Bailey, Walsch, etc. have to say, while identifying and appreciating their similarities with the Urantia Book.

[Geoff]

All I am asking is if you see the similarities between what the Urantia Book teaches regarding the afterlife and what New Age/Hinduism/etc. teaches regarding reincarnation as a path of spiritual development.

Dear Yoder,

To be honest, I have always thought that the Urantia book is extremely "thin" on what really goes on after death. If you want a real appreciation, I would suggest some of the Judas messages, the Borgia books, the Lees books and now possibly the Vale Owen series. I have a whole page dedicated to these and other books that do have real detail on the life after death. I have also not found anything at all useful in reincarnation books regarding life after death, mostly because they tend to not bother at all with the spirit world. If you take the view expressed by one American medium and author, Sylvia Browne, she claimed after death you have a choice of two doors. One comes right back here immediately, and the other goes to the hells. Nice? However she curiously did have some opinions on the spirit spheres and I was indebted to her for learning that in studying past events, it is possible to obtain and experience a full multi-sensory recall. It is small wonder that if someone has one of these they are lead to believe they were there.

We have been here previously talking about abstract notions, and yes you can apply abstract notions and see similarities. But that does not really describe at all what really happens. If you are only interested in the abstract, then you may find these parallels.

I am not sure how helpful I am being here. You should read exactly what you want to and what you feel attracted to. Its your path.

hugs
Geoff

[Yoder777]

Other than the afterlife, there are similarities between the Urantia Book and Theosophy.