Faith & science, the balance.

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Faith & science, the balance.

Post by Philip Fong » Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:17 am

Hi all,
I open this topic here for people to speak their mind not a place to seek the truth or answer.

We all have independent mind and subjected to influences that form our ideology, words are for people and terms are for science. The switch between one ideology to another is triggered by a series of events that changed our perceptions at any given point of time, what make each human an individual is not just the appearance but the mind and all other animals look almost alike by their species.

That is how unique we are and science can identify us by our DNA while faith identify us as soul, do you see the balance? This balance is the visible Universe we come to know about which we can live without knowing and anything we do is confined by its law, hence, scientific methods are developed to seek them out and billions were spent to fine god particle, it is not to find God but a giant leap in matters.

Both faith and science is for the benefit of people, why do people use one tool to challenge the other? To discover new tools, if we found our creator, it will be the end of our purpose but how many more can be created? Believe in anything you want and it shall be your truth your answer, anything else is just opinions.


Philip
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Philip
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"Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are a part of the mystery we are trying to solve." - Max Planck

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Re: Faith & science, the balance.

Post by fmspirit39 » Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:07 am

Philip,

I always find what you have to say very thought provoking. This topic is no different. Humanity has an endless and unquenchable curiosity; thus, it seeks for the most important and desirable aspect for which it has thirst: God. Scientific journeys toward an alleged "God particle" parallels (as you pointed out) the soul's search for the same exact thing. Sending love to you brother.

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Re: Faith & science, the balance.

Post by Philip Fong » Fri Nov 09, 2012 5:26 pm

fmspirit39,
This topic remain sensitive and provocative if someone try to proclaim their beliefs is the only truth that caused the never ending war, hence, I call for the balance. I was an atheist and what changed me into agnostic or neutral is a series of related to phenomenons, we share one of the phenomenon which is 11:11 which is oneness. My dreams and visions broke my perception about what is reality and time prompt shows that I am not alone.

First, I am a no nonsense kind of person, rigid and stubborn that enable me to self taught in a niche profession that almost ended in disaster. Now I believe I can create jobs for myself, in fact, I made my job to facilitate commerce, before that, I only fill the vacancies, I am more relevant when old method need to transform because my knowledge and experience is between analog and digital.

What good are these personal experience and why it happen to me or what can I do? Wait for instructions? Well, look what Buddha, Jesus, Muhammad, Einstein, Da vinci, CharlesDarwin, Mozart... did to this world? I used to think life is random and no purpose but look around us, everything is made by people with purposes, the role we choose to play is the purpose and it is both science and faith in equilibrium.

We are born (product of nature) and gone through life experiences that made us who we are (product of the society), I think that soul in faith is the conscience in science. I have no religion hence no soul but I have conscience where moral and ethics reside. So, where is the contradictions?


Philip
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"Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are a part of the mystery we are trying to solve." - Max Planck

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Re: Faith & science, the balance.

Post by 11light11 » Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:23 pm

Dear Philip,

I love reading your ideas. You are very bright and have such deep insights into common every day topics that seem obvious. You shed a new light on these ideas.

You know, by accident, I stumbled across something, on the internet, that I never knew about. You know how in school, we learn that Alexander Graham Bell invented the telephone, Benjamin Franklin discovered electricity, Einstein developed the Theory of Relativity, and so on and so forth? In actual fact, nearly all of these inventions or discoveries were made by multiple people, usually at around the same time. If you look up that topic "Multiple Discovery" you will see a list that will positively astonish you. In the distant past, there was no way these folks could have been in communication with one another, and they truly devised these ideas independently of one another. Even in present time, I read, many of these Nobel Prize Laureates are co-winners, for multiple individuals arrived at a similar conclusions at around the same time. This is a list (not a comprehensive list, mind you) of some of the known instances of Multiple Discovery: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mu ... iscoveries

Going off your topic idea, I suppose what intrigues me the most about this idea is that once a thought or an idea is "out there," it is accessible to many, if they are similarly struck with that "intuition." I remember Einstein spoke about intuitive leaps that the scientist makes. . .maybe he had half a mind toward this idea?

This quote sums up the strangeness of this phenomenon, for me:

"When the time is ripe for certain things, they appear at different places in the manner of violets coming to light in early spring."

— Farkas Bolyai, to his son Janos, urging him to claim the invention of non-Euclidean geometry without delay.
Quoted in Li & Vitanyi, An introduction to Kolmogorov Complexity and Its Applications, 1st ed., p. 83.

Peace! Thanks for starting this topic, Philip! I will look forward to seeing where this thread takes us! :love :loves Love, Michele
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Re: Faith & science, the balance.

Post by Philip Fong » Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:14 am

Thanks for the complement Michele,

I am not deep and don't have academic recognition, I only found that people have grown to become complicated until they lost sight to simple matters, I have read some rationale spread through mobile phone and one that say, 10% of conflicts is due to different opinion and 90% of misunderstanding is due to inconsideration.
People who closed their mind would consider this topic a taboo because they are protecting their beliefs, although the year is 2012 but we are not from the same era, poor countries are living in the past of the developed countries and travel not only crossing time zone but years apart connected only by technology and education.
I am years ahead of my time in my country and my ability is not appreciated because I choose to improve while the rest remain stagnant (enjoying life), this scenario can happen even in the developed countries since we are either user or maker if not inventor or leader. What made noble people in the past and who will succeed them make me think of reincarnation, as you said, those people are distance apart and champion the same idea, circle the Earth along the Equator, you'll see skin color from black, brown, yellow to white means we are all related.

Although I received mixed education in Chinese and Malay, only one English lesson but most of the contents are adaptation from the West, we did not reinvent the wheel and the course of development is a one way street so as physical life, what have we received from the previous generation and what do we give to the next is our choice, not a natural selection, they do not inherit intelligence or knowledge and hence, must be taught.

My purpose of this topic is to remind people of their conscience and someone who don't have a religion does not have to worship science nor Satan. :D


Philip
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"Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are a part of the mystery we are trying to solve." - Max Planck

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Re: Faith & science, the balance.

Post by 11light11 » Sun Nov 11, 2012 5:21 pm

Philip,

That is awesome! I still am amazed at how wonderfully you write in English. Cheers to you! :kiss:

I've thought about this often, what you are saying, about how folks in the developing worlds are living in the 'past' of the more technologically advanced worlds. You certainly are ahead of your time, not only in regards to the country in which you live -- but for people, in general, the world over. Living in the U.S.A., for instance, you are up against a steep challenge if you select a spiritual path. People are more interested in the new iPhone. ;) I disagree that this is the peek of technology. I read a quote that said "Technology is consciousness," but we usually (in this country) regard "technology" as the newest gadget!

I like your idea that we don't have to be black-and-white, so that if we are atheists, or agnostics, we don't have to turn to Satan or Science instead of God. That is a strict decision and there is more room for freedom.

I often think our ordered universe holds secrets science may never discover. It is possible there are things we can't find with a microscope, or a telescope! :)

You know what I think is really cool? Once I read about how we discovered black holes. How could we know about them, after all, if they suck in all the light? Wouldn't they be invisible to us, here on earth? Well, they are invisible; they are pure black. So how do we know about them? Well, astrophysicists noticed that in many areas, objects were gravitating around nothing, around pure darkness. How can you gravitate around nothing? So that is how they conceived of the notion of the black hole! :shock: We often are trying to interpret a 'zero', you know? Isn't that cool?

I love your topic idea -- you shed light on so many areas, Philip. Your posts are something I always look forward to! I disagree though, i find you very 'deep.' ;)

Peace! With love, Michele :kiss: :sunflower: :loves

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Re: Faith & science, the balance.

Post by Philip Fong » Tue Nov 13, 2012 12:17 pm

Michele,
I didn't learn much English from school though, it was from watching English TV series with subtitle I can read. :D Then I bought encyclopedia, art and computer graphics books, I don't have Constant internet back then and had to use a children dictionary with pictures. :lol: Don't remember deep words, seldom use them and simple vocabulary is all I need.

Technology in household electrical is most visible and the next time you shop for replacement (usually a few years apart), you'll notice the improvements. Gadgets is more of a trend but it power technologies and will affect all of us in the city, we may not need those items but the job may require us to use them sooner or later.
Stephen Hawking's black hole to me is just a galaxy shredder that swallow and spit it out, here is a joke image I found:

Image

Stephen Hawking says universe is not created by God and I think the creator exist because living organism follow the rules of nature to transform and develop under similar system, what is the purpose of a static universe without life form? Purpose is encoded into our gene to survive and thrive, some plants grow thorn and poison to deter from eaten by animals and they are rare. How does plant know about animal?
Also why such a diverse range of species and only human can have intelligence? If it was alien intervention, then who created alien? We are the alien who will rule the Universe one day and Mars is the second planet after the Moon, then we may meet other beings just like Star Trek. 8) Why do human play games and love to watch movies? Because we are creative being not created by the law of physics alone.

Science and faith should coexist in my opinion, answers is not all we live for, our entire life is an emotional journey and that is a fact.


Philip
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Re: Faith & science, the balance.

Post by 11light11 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 3:09 pm

Dear Philip,

I loved that joke image you posted. I have such a hard time searching for keywords, it was perfect! :lol: I think it's amazing that you taught yourself English -- I always hear people say that if it is not your native tongue, and if you are an adult, it is one of the hardest languages to master. English, Japanese, Mandarin, and Russian were the top-difficulty languages, as I had heard it said. I admire you for your diligence! English has so many funny rules, and violations of rules, and it is not phonetic, either! How on earth do you learn it so well?! I often think to myself, "How would you explain to a non-English speaker why sugar is pronounced shuger?" Just as one example. :roll: In any case, I see what you mean that you keep your vocabulary simple and don't use 'deep' words. But, regardless of the words you choose, I find your ideas very deep. You are a deep thinker, and you look beyond the surface of things, to wonder about the layers. That is always very intriguing to me!

I agree that science and faith should (and can) coexist, as you said. It's interesting you brought up Hawking, because he is the one who comes to mind, for me, the most often, too. I know he has more recently said that God did not create the Universe. I don't know what exactly brought him to see the Universe this way, at this late stage in the game.

I've read his book "A Brief History of Time" many times, to try to understand it. I still don't, but the more times I read it the closer I get. (I never took Physics in High School or College, so this is literally my only Physics course.) At one point in that book, he is laying out the gist of Newtonian Physics -- then he teaches what Einstein changed about Newton's ideas -- and then he teaches about the nature of quantum mechanics. He explains why "Gravity" and "Quantum Mechanics" do not currently co-exist all that well; how it shows that something about the gravity theory "Must be wrong," and something about the quantum mechanics theory "Must be wrong," because they don't agree -- they contradict one another. So he goes on to explain that due to that problem, we are searching for the "Unified theory of the Universe." Now this is the part I find interesting: He says -- what if the nature of the Universe is such, that you can't describe everything all in one go? What if it is designed so that that is impossible, and it is a cosmic joke from God to the physicist, who is trying to figure this out?

First of all, in that idea, he uses the word "Designed," which made it seem like he was entertaining the idea that someone created the Universe. If it was just randomly created from the Big Bang, you wouldn't use the word "Designed." But second -- even if he was joking in saying this -- didn't it make it seem like he was saying, it's possible God (or whoever/whatever) purposely made it impossible to combine these two theories? He seemed to imply, that what he felt was that we might never land upon a "Unified Theory," because the nature of All that Is made such a theory impossible. You can't explain it "All in one go," as he said.

That book was written a long time ago and he's clearly changed his mind about those earlier ideas . . but he did have those ideas. So when I saw the news a few years ago that he's now saying there couldn't be a God . . I actually wondered if it was more a personal dilemma/crisis that he was going through? Because how could he have once entertained the notion, and now he rejects it outright? . . .He even once spoke with the Pope (Pope John Paul II), who invited him to come educate him on the Big Bang. The Pope, as a result, accepted the Big Bang as being acceptable to Catholics, so that it did not violate the Creation Story they were already using.

Well, you give me a lot to think about. I enjoyed your message! Peace to you Philip! Love, Michele :kiss:

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Re: Faith & science, the balance.

Post by Philip Fong » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:25 pm

Michele,
What changed Hawking's mind about God? It was a long time ago since I read about special theory of relativity and don't remember much but the conclusion I get was, the Universe is designed as such so that we will not discover the seam or the edges under logic system. I also mentioned that when people grow old and dying, some of them will either leave behind a legacy or stop pretending, I may sounded rude to people who only think positive.

Hawking's black-hold theory is not entirely correct and has to be altered after being challenged for many years, geniuses are just human prone to make mistakes you know, our thoughts can be misinterpreted even by ourselves at times and repeat the same mistakes only to be reminded. I also think that intelligence or IQ is not synonym to maturity and people often defend their foolish pride than to feel sorry.

The Pope also announced the acceptance of extra terrestrial as part of God's creation, could they have discovered something and protect us from mental shock? :roll:

Here is a series of video suggested in my youtube page, don't know why youtube think I might like it and interesting too, WE ARE GODs is my theory of existence playing "descendant" game on Earth, seems I am not the only one crazy enough to think so and what made her say so? Could she have share the same thought that were put in my mind?

Philip
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"Science cannot solve the ultimate mystery of nature because, in the last analysis, we ourselves are a part of the mystery we are trying to solve." - Max Planck

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Re: Faith & science, the balance.

Post by 11light11 » Tue Nov 13, 2012 10:40 pm

Philip,

I loved that video you shared! I found it so moving the way this woman is moved to tears by her idea. She is telling a truth as she feels it in her core. Who is this woman? I think it is interesting too, that youtube suggested this video to you. Maybe it is true what you say, that you are sharing an idea with her, so the video arrived.

I have heard this, that Hawking's black hole theory is not entirely correct. I am not advanced enough in my understanding of physics to know where the holes are (no pun intended). But what I really enjoyed was your idea that intelligence or a high IQ is not a synonym for maturity. People do sometimes get led astray, or avoid admitting errors in judgment, due to their ego, defending their pride. This was an excellent point. I do wonder if Hawkings' inner wonderings, musings, are different from what he shares publicly? Maybe he is fearful about admitting to a belief in God, because that is not good science? He is something of a black-and-white thinker (a pitfall of his profession ;) ).

Einstein was very brave in saying he was wrong about a static universe. He called it the biggest mistake of his career and admitted to it publicly, and I always found him courageous. He also talked about making leaps past logic, using his intuition, which again was brave for a scientist. Many scientists hold that there is no room for intuition, that only logic may prevail.

I wondered about that too, when the Pope announced the acceptance of extra-terrestrials. The Vatican has access to vast stores of information that the rest of humanity is not privy to. Do they have knowledge about aliens the rest of us aren't aware of? That's what I wondered. I suppose they all feel they are protecting us from mental shock, as you say, in withholding certain information from us. But so many people believe in extra-terrestrials anyway.

Maybe when we have a tendency to imagine about certain things, it is because some deeper part of us already 'knows' about it?

Peace! Love, Michele :kiss: :sunflower:

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Re: Faith & science, the balance.

Post by Philip Fong » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:51 am

Michele,
Her name is Kiesha Crowther but some people say she is a fraud, there is a mixed reaction to what she said in the comments, I listened to it at the background while I work and notice her story is consistent with the news and the mystery part resemble the movie "the day the Earth stood still", even so, There is nothing wrong in her speech.



When it comes to doomsday prophecy, some people tends to become radical and claimed to be the messenger similar to the time prompt we are experiencing here, I used to reject such a notion because man made reality blinded us with materialistic standard mocking someone like me a failure even though I have devoted so much efforts into improvement.
Successful businesses should support progress and I found one at a time I have decided to give up to start over from another angle, I thought it was luck or coincident but ever since the time prompt and mysterious incidents, I am interested to find out. We should ask ourselves who do we resemble to in history or what category of people we are in to see the pattern, between science & art, I fell in the Da Vinci category, I am beginning to think that the gift (talent) is for us to discover and practice, certain people are suitable to do certain things because perception is just a product of the society, the only obstacle is attitude.

About people and race, if you search for African mix with Chinese, their children will look like Thais and African with White, the children resemble the Arabs.


Philip
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Re: Faith & science, the balance.

Post by 11light11 » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:44 pm

Dear Philip,

I will look into Kiesha Crowther, see a bit more about what she has to say -- she has me intrigued. If she is a fraud, the way people say, she is a fantastic actress -- I felt she was truly moved in that video you posted. Like she meant what she was saying, very deeply.

It seems there is no shortage of people calling someone who is sincere, a fraud.

I felt sad by what you said, about the man made reality which blinds us with the materialistic standard -- mocking you as a failure even though you've devoted such efforts to improvements. I know what you mean -- I know these standards can feel convincing. But I would have to say, you are anything but a failure. You are searching, and you have your eyes open. You yearn to find the deeper truths. I watch the people with the fancy cars, the CDs and stocks and bonds, the millions put away, the rich lifestyles, and I don't see happiness shining out from them. I grew up in an affluent community and I saw the misery underlying their 'success.' The children of these people were abusing drugs and alcohol -- it appeared to me, when I was a child, that the children felt emotionally neglected. Their parents were busy doing society things, maintaining the rich lifestyle, they didn't have time for their children. 1/3 of my high school graduating class did not graduate on time, but either 1 or 2 years later than they were supposed to, due to alcohol and drug related problems. When young children are abusing drugs that way, it makes me think their emotions are in trouble and they are running and hiding from the pain. They are trying to drift.

We see it with celebrities too, they have 'success' and they have the world's adoration and love, but they get into trouble with addictions, a spiral of divorces and scandals, and it seems their 'success' does not make them happy. What does it mean to have 'success'?

When I think of these examples, I would rather be at the bottom of the totem pole, with no money in the bank, and feel a sense of inner peace and calm . . .than to have a big bank account, and 'success,' but feel the ragged, dried-up, exhausted feeling of running in place to maintain all that 'success' and keep my power flowing.

Just from reading your messages I consider you a seeker, and a very deep and insightful person looking for meaning, and for 'real' answers, not the surface keys to success. Perhaps you learned a few things in all your hard work in the business world -- and you see that that type of 'success' is an illusion, and has nothing to do with the soul, or inner acceptance.

As far as the doomsday prophecy, I think as far as the Mayan calendar goes, we are back to people interpreting a 'zero.' They don't know what to do with an abrupt ending that doesn't have an explanation -- so they decide it means the world is going to end. They don't know what else to think. But why think that? There is no indication that they meant that, in ending the calendar on that date. What if a positive transition is about to occur, instead? Why think it must be a doomsday prophecy? This combined with the Revelations chapter in the Bible has people fearing the worst.

I believe people are capable of caring about the planet, the animals, the plants, and one another -- and trying to figure out how to clean up the mess we made. There are problems, real problems, but I see more and more people caring about that, and more activism to change things in a positive way. If more of us focus this way, we might head off the doomsday prophecies! :lol: I think most people are more good than bad. The tyrants and the serial killers are the weirdos, not us.

I see you in the DaVinci category too -- the Renaissance man. Balanced between art and science; intuition and reason; thought and feeling; head and heart. This is the balance that keeps our world in good shape. We need more people like you! :kiss:

Perception is just a product of society; I see a shift occurring where we value other things, instead of just 'success in business.' After all, the CEO Of British Petroleum is, by that old definition, a 'successful businessman,' and he is heading up a corporation that has severely damaged our world's oceans. Is that 'success'? More and more people say no, it is the worst kind of failure. But he is quite wealthy.

Thanks for all you shared Philip, please keep on! :roll
Peace and love, Michele :loves

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Re: Faith & science, the balance.

Post by Philip Fong » Thu Nov 15, 2012 5:09 am

Michele,
Thank You for your enthusiasm and invoked my deeper thoughts, it is your keen interest to chat about these subjects that gave rise to this topic. You have reminded me of the meaning of messages that I didn't thought of or missed and led me to another level of self consciousness.

Kiesha Crowther boldly said “we are Gods” and people mistook the meaning from “man made religion”, this statement will definitely arouse hatred towards her even though all religion share the same loving deeds but some words are just too offensive to hear, she too is on a mission to spread love from a different point of view and yet people go to war because there can only be one God.

The meaning of success under current standard is when food and shelter is not a problem with some extra money to spend on luxury, the middle income group in a society and a career rather than just a job, need not be rich but affordable people. Similar to having an academic recognition, the higher the better especially when it determine the amount of income, study hard and then work hard.

Human nature will balance it when the rich brats waste their fortune but debt system always cause financial meltdown when the bubble burst yet too big to fail, what a joke and those tycoons are just clowns trading speculative value out of expected growth, if doomsday don't kill us, financial system will.

Image

The ultimate questions: Why create living things on Earth for human to rule and what will God / Creator achieve?
We know science cannot answer yet, hence only creative assumptions is available, here is my version; For Earth to nurture life, the solar system has to be save and we have planets to protect us also the asteroid belt. An ecosystem was build to make living things for human to evolved but the previous environment is unsuitable with gigantic dinosaur because human won't survive, hence it has to restart and the size of dinosaur is reduced and become birds.
Now we have the garden of Eden and human is created, generations has past and getting over crowded, so some will have to die sooner at anytime by any means. Their conscience / soul is collected, filtered in hell & heaven then some were reincarnated until they are enlightened to become part of God / Creator.

Perhaps there are many levels of creation, human need only 9 months to create while a worthy soul / conscience need several lifetimes to nurture, the process is similar to artificial insemination so that we get what we want than rely on chances and we carry the creative ability of our creator / God, that is why death is not the end, just different level or dimension.

Nice story eh? :lol:
Philip
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Re: Faith & science, the balance.

Post by 11light11 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 4:22 pm

I love your perspective on this Philip, very unique and yet it all fits together so well. You bring a new viewpoint for me to consider and things seem to fall into place. When you talk about the dinosaurs shrinking to the size of birds to accommodate human life, and the way we move from 9-months-gestation to lifetimes' worth of soul growth, to attain to a higher self . . .I think these ideas are beautiful. You are coming to some kind of explanation for where we find ourselves today.

It's a funny thing that so much of our earth's destruction (by people), is brought about by folks who are considered "successful." Just like when we talked about the Gulf Oil Spill, overseen by the CEO of one of the world's most successful corporations?? Much of this domination and destruction, makes these people 'successful businessmen,' because the mandate of the corporation is to increase profits. They increase profits by pillaging our earth, and also harming people. There are these folks in the Amazon jungle as we speak, who have never encountered "1st world people," who never saw our technologies or our clothing or our automobiles -- they are untouched. And right now, there are attempts to invade the area where they live, to cut down the forests and drill for oil. The people are peering at the bulldozers over fallen logs, and trying to disrupt this destruction; they are shooting at the invaders with little pea shooters and the like. At the same time, we cannot communicate with these people -- there is not a soul on earth who does not belong to their tribe, who knows their language.

Whose right is it to invade their life? And disrupt it? There is the idea that you have to pay to be alive, and these corporations want the tribes to buy into our system, buy our clothing and our food and pay taxes and pay for the land they live on and pay to build their houses. But they have survived all these years without being a part of the system. Why don't they have the right to continue on as they've always done? The dollar holds no value to them, why should it?

So you think a lot when you hear about these things about what "success" means. The men who somehow got permission to drill for oil in the Amazon are 'successful.' They wield a lot of power, they are wealthy, "they have made it." They are destroying our planet!

Who gave anyone the right to do these things? . . . Well I think it's somewhat of a blessing that you came to some of those hardships in business. What is unfair is the promise you were offered: If you study hard in school, and work hard in business, you will succeed. That promise was not kept and you did everything right. That deserves credit, and you are still the same person at your core if you "succeed" or if you "fail." You still matter and you still 'count,' either way. You still have value.

The new value you come into as a human being with dignity and grace, regardless of your 'success,' is a new kind of perspective on 'who you are.' Just like you said, with how it takes many lifetimes to achieve maturity and strength? We can see you must have visited our planet many times already. ;) To me, you are a much greater 'success' than these men who invade private sanctuaries, believing it is their 'right' to pillage endlessly. We are all standing up to them now and saying "You actually don't have that right after all."

We have a birth right to peace, and more people care about making sure no one's peace is disrupted or stolen. I can see you care about that! :kiss:

Thanks Philip this is such a great discussion! I appreciate you and your ideas so much.
Love, Michele :loves

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Re: Faith & science, the balance.

Post by Philip Fong » Fri Nov 16, 2012 9:55 am



The video above show the problem with science that proved to be true inside the Universe and the term infinity broke it leaving scientist in the dark, it means science is meant for reality which has a limit and become an illusion from outside of the Universe.

Believing in God / Creator is to think beyond science, atheist think that it is delusional to believe in story that cannot be proven based on religious scriptures, we know that words can be misinterpreted or misunderstood also misleading, as long as the question of purpose remain open, no one can say what is and what is not for certain.

Human progress has damaged the Earth because people who own big corporations including investor who want to make money work for them, such a method is unhealthy. While the idea to garner public funds is to pay for improvement, it has turned into money make money scheme, natural resources is finite but because it is much harder to earn money with real effort, people gamble.

I have read news about the Amazon where the entire village were massacred and whales seems to end their lives at the beach, since governments can be over powered by big corporations and underground group, who else have the power to supervise or change the bad habit and selfishness that continue to breed unhealthy practices?

Science is costly and people tends to choose the easy way out while law can only suppress, education is ineffective if there are no solutions, so how will lightworkers make any difference is what I am wondering.


Philip
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Re: Faith & science, the balance.

Post by Philip Fong » Fri Nov 16, 2012 1:21 pm

http://workshop.chromeexperiments.com/stars/

Get ready to be amazed by Google galaxy, you need Chrome or web 3D enabled browser. Now we can travel out of our own milkyway.

This one is solar system: http://www.solarsystemscope.com/

Have fun.
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Re: Faith & science, the balance.

Post by 11light11 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:55 pm

Philip I want to check back in a little later in the day to watch this video -- but is that Masuro Emoto?!? I thought I recognized his face. If so that is another synchronicity between us my friend! I adore that man and feel he has made such a positive contribution to science!

I loved the ideas you share, and am always excited to look at the galaxy video you posted. You are talking about the beached whales and the destroyed Amazon villages -- I can see your heart goes out to these people and animals. It is sad, no? It puzzles me that anyone could desire money so much, or power so much, that they can still sleep at night, if they know they contribute to destruction. After the Gulf Oil Spill happened, I was so upset -- I couldn't stop thinking about those ducks coated in oil, the suffocating fish and whales and dolphins, the many sea creatures, the water itself, the poor fishermen. The whole thing just . . .hurt, you know? So I kept wondering "What about the CEO?" Was he all cozy in his bed?? Maybe he has a secret we can't imagine, and he did feel badly? His only salvation is if he is in mourning.

I appreciate your thoughts a lot. I hope some of these ideas are helping you to overcome the sense you are not a 'success' because of the way the business world treated you. In my social work program we learned that the corporation's only mandate is to increase profits. If they do something like put some of the money toward the environment, human rights, animal rights, and it reduces profit? They are in trouble with investors. That is a shock, I never knew that, but it tells you why we have so many companies misbehaving. If we had incentives for such things as cleaning up toxic output, and treating the land, animals and peoples with respect, and they got money back for doing that? They would do it. Not because they care but because of the money. What a world!!

We care, though, and our caring counts, too. I love reading your messages. Looking forward to watching your videos later. Peace Philip! Take care! With love, Michele :kiss: :loves :sunflower:

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Re: Faith & science, the balance.

Post by Philip Fong » Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:06 pm

The person in the video is Dr. Michio Kaku, he contributed a lot to explaining physics to the general public rather than speaking like a lecturer.

He think time travel is possible too but I don't. :D
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Re: Faith & science, the balance.

Post by 11light11 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 6:18 pm

Dear Philip,

I am laughing after having watched that physics video you posted. They are saying "We don't really know what to do," with regard to the fact that their two theories don't agree. Gravity and quantum mechanics don't agree with one another. Gravity perfectly explains the grand -- except for the black hole. Quantum mechanics perfectly explains the small -- except for the black hole. "We are embarrassed that they don't agree." And "We don't know what to do" !!! :shock:

What shocks the physicist is that the universe goes on being the universe, even if we don't understand it! There is nothing to 'do.' It doesn't need our equations in order to 'act right.' If we go on never accurately describing it -- it exists with or without our comprehension.

It's like that famous quote, about how if the bumblebee troubled himself with the laws of aerodynamics, he wouldn't be able to fly. He flies regardless. He doesn't care about our erroneous equations. He goes on his way!

We are so arrogant, this video just reminds me of our arrogance. We think the universe needs us to understand it!!! The universe simply exists.

What I wonder after watching this video is: Is it possible we are wrong about black holes existing, to begin with? We have no true proof they exist, do we?

That is not to say they must not exist, simply because we don't yet have a convenient equation to support their existence! ;) But I do wonder about this question, whether it is necessarily the case that they certainly exist. But it seemed from the video that no one is willing to entertain the notion that we might even be wrong about them to begin with?

Thanks for sharing this!!! :kiss: :loves I love pondering these things. Peace to you Philip! Love, Michele
p.s. I just noticed your new post. I am intrigued by what you said: why don't you believe time travel is possible??? I am intrigued. Please explain.

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Re: Faith & science, the balance.

Post by Philip Fong » Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:21 pm

Time travel,
What is time and how was it recorded so that we can travel back and forth? Theory of moving faster than the speed of light only means seeing things in slow motion and time dilation only delaying time away from gravitational effect which is minor. :roll:

The idea to me is flawed and laughable, if time is recorded, every single molecule has its identification to be at the specific location at the right time, now imagine the air we breath and the food we eat that pass out then reverse the process to see these molecules from one state into another. :P
That is a lot of data to keep for every single molecule in the Universe and we can see the beginning but is there an end? If it does, then life has no more meaning and where would time traveler go after seeing everything? But if it does not end, what is the point to record time anyway. Which lead us to the same question of purpose and reason of existence.

Birth and death is the mechanism of nature in the Universe and theorists began to conceive parallel Universes to prevent the end of thoughts, black hole to me is just a giant recycle machine until the entire Universe come to its end :roll

Philip
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Re: Faith & science, the balance.

Post by 11light11 » Sat Nov 17, 2012 4:36 pm

Awesome!!! :bana: Thanks for sharing that, Philip. My mind goes into a tangle when I try to imagine time travel. Your explanation moved me along a bit, toward understand the problem with the idea. I liked how you explained the it would mean each molecule has to have a reference point to all times past and future, and the state that it was in then -- like your example of our eating food, and so on.

Do you know some say that Einstein did develop a time machine before he died, and even successfully used it, but kept it a secret? There was an Einstein exhibit at the Chicago Field Museum (or the Museum of Science and Industry?) a few years ago, and they talked about that a bit. It's funny because there is this romantic notion of 'secret discoveries' that important thinkers left behind, and I can appreciate this fantasy. It is indeed romantic to consider these things!

Love to you Philip! :kiss: Thanks for explaining your idea! It helped me to think about time travel in a new way.
Peace! Michele
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Re: Faith & science, the balance.

Post by 11light11 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 4:41 pm

Dear Philip,

I have some new questions for your Faith & Science: The Balance thread.

Are you familiar with Masuro Emoto? I have one of his books. He is a Japanese medical doctor, who had some ideas about water. He felt that water has a memory, a consciousness, an ability to 'learn' based on what it is exposed to. He cited evidence that a polluted lake becomes clear when a group of Monks chant and meditate over it, for instance.

So he took glass bottles of water, and taped messages to the bottles, facing inward, into the bottle itself. He put a host of different types of words, like "LOVE," "GRATITUDE," "HATRED," "LEAVE ME ALONE," "YOU ARE BEAUTIFUL," and so on. We'll call them "ugly messages" and "Kind messages." Then he took the water samples and partially froze them, till they reached a temperature where crystals began to form; then he took photographs of those crystals.

Do you know this concept in biological sciences, of "cis" and "trans"? "Cis" is like life; it has the properties of life; it goes along with life. "Trans" is anti-life; it does not have the properties of life and it violates life (This is why 'trans-fat' is bad for you.) Emoto surmised that "Commands are not a part of nature," and so a message taped to the water bottle that gave an order, like "Go away," failed to form a crystal; a command is 'trans.' Commands are non-life. But a kind message is "Cis," because it promotes a healthy crystal, which is organized and reflects a life principle. This fascinated me.

He showed that the water exposed to the 'kind messages' formed beautiful crystals, reminiscent of snowflakes. The ones exposed to the 'ugly messages' failed to form organized crystals, but looked more like a chaotic sludge.

He surmised that water 'contains' information, and reflects what it is exposed to. He cares about this conclusion as a medical doctor, stating that since we are mostly water, ourselves -- our body is up to 75% water -- then our thoughts and our words are impacting our physical health. If we always tell ourselves "You are a beautiful person and you deserve peace in your life," the water that our body is made up of, can be attuned to positive energies. If we always tell ourselves "You are a bad person and you deserve to suffer," the water in our body might move us toward a disease state. He said it matters how you talk to yourself, it matters how you talk to other people. He did different studies where people "Prayed on water" or "Told nice things" to water, and then showed the improved state of the water. He also showed this with polluted municipal water, and with non-filtered water, that it showed improvements.

You know what is also interesting? It doesn't matter what language he used, for the words he taped to the bottle. He used Japanese words, French, English . . .he also took photos of the water after it was exposed to classical music, and then after it was exposed to heavy metal. The water formed a sludge, a chaos, after the heavy metal! It formed symphonies when exposed to Mozart. ;) It made me worry a bit about my musical tastes!!! :lol: But isn't it interesting that while languages are man-made, the water "spoke" all the different languages???? He surmises that languages, words, carry vibrational frequencies that are 'truths,' and which are then imparted to the water.

Here is the image of the LOVE AND GRATITUDE water crystal. What do you think Philip???
Image

Peace! Love, Michele :loves :kiss: :sunflower:

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Re: Faith & science, the balance.

Post by Philip Fong » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:11 pm

Hi Michele,
I think I heard about this in a science documentary like "Beyond 2000", the water is labeled for identification and talking to it or think good or bad about it caused it to have such effect, language is just a communication tool and what it means is the intention straight from the mind or the difference between noise and music creates rhythms or chaos, but it does not make criminal fall sick nor does it have any effect in medicine, if we can strike a balance in everything we do, perhaps it does contribute to a significant sum of aura.

So, do you talk to the water before you drink it? I wonder if by thinking will have the same result, feel kind of weird talking to water. :lol: Ladies tends to be more interested in these science than men, I am looking for pole shift info update but turns out that the internet is flooded with nonsense that getting a credible source need to waste time screening.


Philip
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Re: Faith & science, the balance.

Post by 11light11 » Tue Nov 20, 2012 7:21 pm

Hi Philip!!!

I don't talk to the water before I drink it -- good idea though! I never thought of that before. You're right, people will look at you funny! ;) Instead I created a "LOVE AND GRATITUDE" coaster that I set my clear water glass on top of. It has rainbows on it, and I am hoping that I then always "drink" the properties of love and gratitude, and it moves me to better health!!

I also made some bottles of water and taped "LOVE AND GRATITUDE" to the bottles, and I charge them out in the sun and the full moon outside once a month. I use these bottles to feed my plants, and they are thriving! Note this photo: Image I've already shared this photo elsewhere. This plant started off because I knocked off a chunk of new growth, from another plant. A few leaves attached to a small stem fell to the floor. I placed the little stem in a glass of water that said "LOVE AND GRATITUDE" on it and I put a clear quartz crystal in the glass of water. It grew roots and I planted it . . and look at it today! :shock: Remarkable.

You posted this awesome message at 1:11 my time! :bana:

Do share if you find that information about the pole shift! I am wondering about that myself.

Peace and love to you!
With love & gratitude, Michele :loves :roll

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Re: Faith & science, the balance.

Post by Sandy » Wed Nov 21, 2012 5:41 am

I find myself talking to everything now... birds, plants, lizards. I can understand and even accept talking to the living critters but I caught myself walking into the room and saying to my washing machine today, "Hello you beautiful machine!" :shock: :oops: :lol:

That is one gorgeous plant, Michele...My house plants are ailing...Think I must remember to give this a try. Thank you!
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