is it ok to sentence another human being to death

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is it ok to sentence another human being to death

Post by happyrain » Thu Oct 31, 2013 11:36 pm

your thoughts ? :?:

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Re: is it ok to sentence another human being to death

Post by overmind » Fri Nov 01, 2013 6:23 am

Well, keeping those alive who endanger society seems counterproductive, especially when it is expensive. It really depends on the crime and the likelihood of rehabilitation. It should be painless though.

If an individual is only going to do more wrong in the future, then sending them to the mansion worlds could reduce their possible future offenses, which would have occurred here. That could also improve lives in the long-run. The issue is that we need very reliable people to be the judge of this since it impacts the ascension journey of the individual.

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Re: is it ok to sentence another human being to death

Post by 11light11 » Fri Nov 01, 2013 7:15 pm

I struggle with this question too, Eric. I take overmind's points as well, and I have to say I've seen it through that lens myself. It's hard to know what the right thing is with this.

One thing I always worry about, as far as sentencing someone to death, is that there is such a thing as a soul. Do we really want to just unleash this tortured soul? Does that really solve any problem? I think of someone like Charles Manson and I feel somewhat glad he is serving a life sentence, and is still living, instead of having been sentenced to death . . .

What do you think about it, Eric?

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Re: is it ok to sentence another human being to death

Post by Sandy » Sat Nov 02, 2013 3:15 am

That's a tough question Eric. I used to feel it was perhaps deserved justice..But I guess now I keep thinking that as long as they are alive there is hope that individuals can change within and know a God who loves them despite heinous crimes committed. Perhaps from His/Her lofty perspective the First Source can fully understand all that went into making a person fearsome. Funny thing was... I was thinking about this question just last week while watching my little grandson run around so sweet pure and innocent and I suddenly was reminded of a person who many in the world hated and was informed that they too were once a little innocent baby just like my little Elijah.
I think we will always be God's little babies so I guess I am in favor of not giving up on someone's abilities to change within and even encouraging them to try to make amends in some way to society. Every soul is precious to God and experience in mortal form is a true gift of wisdom and knowledge.
Well that is how I look at it anyway. Everyone of course is entitled to their own opinion.
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Re: is it ok to sentence another human being to death

Post by Welles » Sat Nov 02, 2013 7:33 pm

My answer is no, it isn't OK for the state to engage in taking life. That means war is off the table as well as capital punishment.

I can understand the point of view of those who react to hienous acts of criminals against other people with the suggestion that removing certain people from society permanently is a necessary option. A death penalty seems to fulfill that need. I also can understand the widely held belief that war of necessity and can even be 'righteous'. Both those points of view have legitimate context in the world as it is. I don't want to live in that world. Therefore I must find a different answer so the world can change.

I'm not delusional. Yes I understand that most people live in a state of emotional reaction to the circumstances in which they find themselves. The agreement for capital punishment and the necessity for war is arrived at when one inserts themselves into an empathic equation with the acts of the basest elements of society, react to their projected fears and then try and prevent confronting them in real life. I also understand that much of the 'world' around us promotes their own selfish agendas by stimulating those fears.

I prefer to project how a society might work if the world recognized Love as a dominant force. In such a world I would suggest that there would still be occasional conflict and even the possibility of crime from degenerate humans. A solution that might resolve those issues could be the basis for the legal system. The goal would not be adversarial such as we see now with prosecutors and defense but a general agreement to get to the truth. Resolution would then be restitution or expulsion. If someone performs an action so terrible that adequate compensatin is not possible they should be given a basic set of tools that would provide the possibliity of living if they wished and then banished to a geologically isolated place with others of their ilk to make a go of it without the support or further cost to the society that they so gravely damaged.

Note: This idea is not viable at present but may have some revelancy after this planet is once more on the track toward Light and Life.

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Re: is it ok to sentence another human being to death

Post by AJ » Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:07 pm

I was just having this discussion recently. I too am in the no category. In fact I am in the no category on taking of life in all cases....even defense. Now, I am not saying that if a person with a gun was about to kill me or my family that I would not act and may end up killing them but even this is wrong. Who am I to take life? I am not God. It is His right and His alone. Now, there are countless stories in the bible or other religous books about the taking of life. For me the only thing that makes it right between the person and our creator is the after effect of the taking of life. How does the person feel? I know that if I ever had to kill someone in defense or by accident, I would feel unbelievable remorse for that person. Because I feel this remorse, I feel it makes the situation at least a little better. What gets me most is the unnecessary or unremorseful killing that goes one all over the world. I am not talking about police or soldiers because, again, I feel there would be remorse there for the killing of someone that you really did not want to. I am a a hunter and even the killing for food gets to me but I still kneel down and thank God for this great animal and the nourishment it provides. Say what you will about the 10 commandments but I feel they are the true way to live...if you can. Thou shalt not kill did not say thou shalt not kill....unless. I understand the position taken on capital punishment about them being a danger to society and in the past that justified the killing but today, despite the costs (which should never play into the equation of ending life if you ask me when life is life and money is a piece of paper with ink on it) we can easily remove the dangers to society away from society. If we take that life how do we know we did not end the life of one who could come to peace with the terrible evil they committed and come to peace with God? Maybe they have work yet to do in this world despite the evil they committed but we interfered with God's plan and did His work. Now does God use us to do his work? I don't know but I doubt it. I feel it is our free will that decided to end the life and not God's though He obviously knew about it. That is my thoughts on this. Kill another if you must to protect those who need protecting but I beg of you and pray for you to have remorse after. Sin remain sin without repentence but even the worst things you could ever do will always be forgiven if you feel remorse and strive to overcome your guilt, learn from your mistakes and move forward.
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Re: is it ok to sentence another human being to death

Post by happyrain » Thu Nov 21, 2013 5:59 pm

i apologize for not sharing how i feel on the subject but it is because i don't really know how i feel. after reading your post, to those who did reply, i find initially my thoughts reflected sandys opinion- that is, i think back to when we were children running in a field with joy in our hearts. we're still children and i'm not saying we can't experience this joy today only this is how i would think after the question. if i try to raitonalize i see death as a way of life. it exist in nature. to take a life is not unnatural either. we're animals too and not the only species known to demonstrate violent acts but 'appear to have'(from a human perspective) a a little more depth in order and and understanding of moral principiple.
it's hard to answer because maybe we're the pioneers on this planet to establish law and passings of judgement and don't have much to compare to.
that's not to say our system is perfect. thanks for your thoughts.

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Re: is it ok to sentence another human being to death

Post by happyrain » Thu Nov 21, 2013 6:50 pm

If an individual is only going to do more wrong in the future, then sending them to the mansion worlds could reduce their possible future offenses, which would have occurred here.
If someone performs an action so terrible that adequate compensatin is not possible they should be given a basic set of tools that would provide the possibliity of living if they wished and then banished to a geologically isolated place with others of their ilk to make a go of it without the support or further cost to the society that they so gravely damaged.
we can easily remove the dangers to society away from society.
I'm not sure how i feel on relocation/containment. On the one hand. Maybe removing someone from society could actually be therepuetic for the individual- Society was the problem, not the person. On the other hand I think relocating a handful of 'problems'(or, criminals) somewhere else will only give you a concentrated amount of unresolved problems. I think it'd make an entertaining movie but am not sure if it's a lasting solution.

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Re: is it ok to sentence another human being to death

Post by happyrain » Thu Nov 21, 2013 7:09 pm

AJ- i think god does use us to do his work.

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Re: is it ok to sentence another human being to death

Post by memawlaura » Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:00 am

My journey to encompass compassion was especially directed to those that are in prison and caused harm to others. If we are to encompass compassion taking the life of another just can not happen. I read an article where a tribe handles crimes to others in a loving way. The whole tribe even the ones harmed surround that person and express love by telling them everything they do that is good. They rehabilitate with compassion and love. I know for many its hard to comprehend some crimes but the person is just being of their darker side, the light is still within them and helping them to find it is what we should all do. We don't have to condone their crime but we can show compassion always.
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Re: is it ok to sentence another human being to death

Post by happyrain » Fri Jan 10, 2014 4:53 pm

thanks memaw for your thoughts. i like what you say but i find it difficult to show compassion all the time- our emotions can run rampant in the heat of the moment. even in the most trained of minds. and what about those who enjoy killing others, do you give them a sympathetic hug and let them carry on ? i wonder how this tribe would handle murder? can you share the article here :hithere

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Re: is it ok to sentence another human being to death

Post by memawlaura » Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:46 pm

Its been awhile since I read the article but I'll do some research and see if I can locate it again. Yes, as humans we find our emotions seem to create reaction. But killing a human for doing the same only condones killing. Many need to be shown how to live in their light and I just cant see how killing someone accomplishes this. What to do with those that dangerous I guess that is the question for us still remaining in this 3D reality. I too find many challenges to being in the world but not of it. One day we will see the answers and when is the only question for me. :loves
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Re: is it ok to sentence another human being to death

Post by Geoff » Tue Sep 02, 2014 10:36 am

This is a tough one. Basically I would say at the highest level of decision making, "No", we do not have that right. Added to that, these guys come back to harass us, so sending them to another dimension does not help greatly. But, if you read the UB on a planet a bit more advanced than us, (but not Light and Life) they do seem to cull "undesirables". But thats not the highest level of decision making.

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Re: is it ok to sentence another human being to death

Post by lilly » Sat Sep 06, 2014 3:05 pm

In my humble opinion, I don't think it's right....being locked up for life would be a worse torture for some people.
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Re: is it ok to sentence another human being to death

Post by KurtSchluter » Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:47 am

No, I agree with AJ. Great discussion. Vengeance is mine sayeth The Lord.

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Re: is it ok to sentence another human being to death

Post by Sandy » Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:16 am

I appreciate the recent additions to this thread to bring it back into the radar. I love memawlaura's thoughts on extending love and compassion to those who offend. I think those two go hand in hand regardless of the crime (In a perfect world anyway) But it truly is something worthy to shoot for. Love can work miracles ( Our dear friend, Welles, was just inspiring me with this thought in a private email ..thank you!) and it can actually change us from the inside out where change truly needs to occur. Some of these people...not all of course, are brought up in such abhorable conditions that it would break our hearts. But it isn't pity... we need or they want. Everyone whether they realize it or not can benefit by fulfilling a need within another. So prison reforms could include some method of helping, or benefitting others and allowing them to see the fruits of their own labor in this regard. Imagine being in prison for life with no real objectives, no way to feel a sense of worth? :(
I don't know... greater minds then mine ponder this and I would like to research the actualities of prison life and reforms if at all possible.

There are those who are so mentally damaged though that do not fit any of these categories...The psychopaths. Some people may not be able to be 'fixed" on our world, so warped are their minds. What do we do for them? How to reach them? Is it possible via "untraditional" methods, not talking those of modern medicine and science... more along the lines of spiritual methods to ease the ferocious burden of "miss wired" genetics? hmmm now I am faintly remembering something I read nearly 9 years ago... A doctor whose unusual spiritual method could heal even without personally associated physically with psychotic patients of this sort. I don't know if I even remember enough about it to find it in a Goggle search, but I will try.
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Re: is it ok to sentence another human being to death

Post by Seeker13 » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:41 pm

Wow, I'm surprised at the intense sadness this thread evoked in me. I don't know anyone in the prison system with whom I can attach this reaction to. Many different streams of ideas, people and events converged all at once. I thought of the exact moment I forgave my father. It was the greatest gift I could have given myself. I thought of my precious little preschoolers who only want to be loved and accepted, even those who were born into families that the mere mention of their last name bring knowing nods from the community. Like their future is already set along a certain path, no matter the gifts they may possess. Our prison system does everything but rehabilitate... Our society reaches out a hand to some and turns away from others.

In the U book on regular worlds only the best strains were allowed to procreate. We are far from being a regular world. Everything that could go wrong did go wrong, genetically, physically, emotionally, socially, spiritually... Why did my life put me here where I am today? Not all of it was because I made the proper conscious decision to be a moral adult. There were plenty of events and circumstances where my life could have gone a different direction. So, how can I judge whether or not someone deserves to live or die? Why would I ever think that deserves to be my choice?

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Re: is it ok to sentence another human being to death

Post by Sandy » Wed Oct 08, 2014 1:45 am

In the U book on regular worlds only the best strains were allowed to procreate. We are far from being a regular world. Everything that could go wrong did go wrong, genetically, physically, emotionally, socially, spiritually... Why did my life put me here where I am today? Not all of it was because I made the proper conscious decision to be a moral adult. There were plenty of events and circumstances where my life could have gone a different direction. So, how can I judge whether or not someone deserves to live or die? Why would I ever think that deserves to be my choice?
That was perfectly said, Kim! :D
Our friends, the Secondary Midwayers, have expressed similar sentiments when speaking of their brethren that rebelled against the Creator of all ages ago. Bzutu tells us that they were born into harsh times and there was no one to teach them. He goes on to say it was more good luck then wisdom that he ended up being a loyal Midwayer. I have always sensed such love from him for his formerly rebellious Midwayer family. He missed them terribly when they were deterred and it pains him to hear them categorized as rebels. It may be one of our greatest challenges as mortals to foster brotherly and sisterly love for humans who have so cruelly and purposely broken the most precious of human laws.. the right to life. Yet, we have examples and patterns of Divine Love all around us that will assist if only we have eyes to see and ears to hear" eh?

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Re: is it ok to sentence another human being to death

Post by rogerkrupa » Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:15 am

It is possible to terminate ones earthly existence, but only God, through the Ancients of Days can terminate ones existence for good. We should not be required to tolerate inhuman predators in our society. If someone has no regard for an innocent persons life, why should we have regard for his life? We just have to make darn sure that the death penalty is warrented.
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Re: is it ok to sentence another human being to death

Post by Seeker13 » Wed Nov 05, 2014 2:36 pm

Roger,
It is my belief that we should have regard for everyone. If we are to move away from this cycle of vengeance and violence we are locked into, it has to start somewhere. Since I can't do anything about anyone but myself. I have to start with me. I'm not on any soapbox or anything, just hope it will be different for the generations to come. I grew up in a fearful violent household. I didn't want my children's memories to be filled with feelings of being scared and scarred.

There are so many broken people in the world. They are the one's performing these atrocious acts. We learn compassion by others modeling and living with those standards. By not being shone a better way to treat others, our society is creating these monsters who have no regard for human life. Why should we be surprised when they act and react to what they've been taught. I think that can be said for everything we see going on in our world today.

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Kim
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Re: is it ok to sentence another human being to death

Post by rogerkrupa » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:25 am

I would hope that the death penalty becomes a thing of the past, and when this world is finally settled in Light and Life it may become a matter of history. When I read the U-book chapter about " Government on a Neighboring Planet" I see that the death penalty is imposed for a variety of crimes, including violation of public trust. True, this world does share the Luciferian legacy and is far from perfect, but these people are trying to improve their society. They appear to have enemies at least as dangerous as ISIL and they must deal with this threat. The death penalty should be only a last resort, when all else has failed, but I feel that it is sometimes neccesary. I don't hate these lost souls, but I do feel that some problems have to be handed off to God. I read on this forum that Adolf Hitler was consigned to a morontial prison planet. He was not eliminated, but rather offered a chance of rehabilitation. Must we use our tax dollars in a vain attempt to rehabilitate the incorrigable?
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Re: is it ok to sentence another human being to death

Post by rogerkrupa » Fri Nov 07, 2014 2:51 am

As a postscript I would reccomend reading Robert A. Heinlien's story entitled 'Coventry.'
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Re: is it ok to sentence another human being to death

Post by Geoff » Fri Nov 07, 2014 4:41 am

rogerkrupa wrote: I don't hate these lost souls, but I do feel that some problems have to be handed off to God. I read on this forum that Adolf Hitler was consigned to a morontial prison planet. He was not eliminated, but rather offered a chance of rehabilitation. Must we use our tax dollars in a vain attempt to rehabilitate the incorrigable?
Dear Roger,

I don't know about Morontia prisons, because the Morontia worlds don't need prisons. The Law of Attraction keeps those who are evil, just where they should be. However, sadly, and for reasons I don't understand, they can influence humans, and it is for this very reason that the folks in the mansions worlds do not recommend we execute evil folks, because they will carry on their evil, only invisibly. You can read about this in Anthony Borgia's book "More Light", where Monsignor Robert Hugh Benson, communicating immediately post second world war, explains how it does not help to execute war criminals. It does not remove the evil from earth. Less harm would occur if they were locked up here.

By the way i do know at least two people who claim to have spoken with Hitler. He is doing it tough, as he has a heck of a lot of compensation to resolve.

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Re: is it ok to sentence another human being to death

Post by rogerkrupa » Fri Nov 07, 2014 6:03 am

Geoff,
I can't say that I know anything about morontial prisons, but it seems that Lucifer was held in such a place. He was always given the option of repentance and mercy, but he rejected it. Where does one go from there?
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Re: is it ok to sentence another human being to death

Post by Sandy » Fri Nov 07, 2014 7:04 am

I was just reading about the Lucifer Rebellion today in my Urantia paper a day reading challenge. It did speak of prison worlds (seven of them I think but I have the memory of a goldfish :roll: ) But it seems it is the beings own attitude that would either keep them there or allow for moving on and out for rehabilitation. It seems we passed on humans would have to realize that our mortal behaviour is wrong at least... and that might take some help if we arrive clueless from our recent life in the flesh.
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