The book that started my search

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The book that started my search

Post by AJ » Mon Jun 27, 2005 4:07 pm

I know I have mentioned briefly my spiritual change but I was reading through a post by Geoff regarding a dream I had and it made me think of this book so I wanted to share it with all of you.

First a little history before I reveal the book:

As some of you know. My search for God came out of pain when my daughter was born on 12/18/04 and when we found out several weeks later that she had a very rare disorder known as Aicardi Syndrome and her life expectancy could be any day to 15 yrs, no one knew. Any way, I opened up my heart to God and asked for strength and help and thus my spiritual journey began. At first I went back to what I knew, which was Catholicism, but along the way was encountering new beginnings and new phenomenoms.

Any way, on my birthday 03/08 I was reading the paper and came across an article about a local man who went through a life changing event. He was an agnostic art teacher at the local university who while on a student art trip to Paris in the early 80's had an experience where his intestines ruptured and where he had to go the local hospital. While there he basically died, but did not see the tunnel and lights and beautiful scene of nature that so many before him talked about. Instead he was surrounded by other beings who seemed human and kind at first but then led him to a dark place and began to change and become mean and evil. Anyway, he was in this place for awhile until he felt so much despair and called out to Jesus for help even though he did not know Jesus. At that point Jesus came and took him out of there and he remembers being filled with so much love and just crying while they were hurling through space until they came to this huge center light spere where he said he could see thousands of lights flying to and from the sphere. I won't share more in case you want to read it. Anyway we woke up on the hospital bed 10 hours later when they finally were able to operate on him. He came to find out later in life that what had happened to him should have killed him after 5 hours but he managed to come back after 10 hours. Since that point in time he changed his whole life and has been a Minister and Missionary here in Cincinnati for the past 25 years.

The name of the book is "My Decent into Death" by Howard Storm.

I thought of this when Geoff had said something along the lines of you just have to ask Jesus for help and he will give it to you. This man's story is a true testametn to that statement and definately came to me in a point of my life when I had many questions and needed to read it. Since then I have bought many copies and have passed it along to many friends, coworkers and family members and told them to pass it along when they are done. It has changed my one friend's whole family. They are nicer, and treat each other with more respect, pray more and try to be better people. I think it is a powerful book and is a fast read. I guess that is enough about it for now.

God Bless
AJ

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Post by Geoff » Mon Jun 27, 2005 11:08 pm

Dear AJ,

I have not read that, but it is very plausible. It sounds like a near death experience were he was first stuck in the earth plane, and then called out for help, and went to the transition/meeting place. It really does not matter if Jesus himself did that, which I suspect is very unlikely. There are hoards of angels and ex-mortals on standby for that job.


Do you mind if I move this later to the Spiritual books section?
love,
Geoff.
Love commands the universe. Man only resorts to control when love is missing.
~ said Jesus through Glenda Green in "Love without End" ~

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Post by AJ » Tue Jun 28, 2005 2:25 pm

Not at all! I did not know we had a spiritual book section.

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Post by Redshift » Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:28 pm

I haven't read his book but I think I have read a briefer version of his experience.

http://www.near-death.com/storm.html

Is this the one? If it is then, yes, it was quite an amazing thing to happen to someone! I think I first read it about 4-5 years ago.

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Post by AJ » Tue Jun 28, 2005 7:41 pm

Yes, this was the one and I see many parrallels in his experience with that of what I have read in the Urantia Papers. Some things I disagreed with but other experiences in the book fit perfectly with the Urantia Papers and thus I really felt like his experience was legit!

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Post by angelag1111 » Mon Jan 15, 2007 10:08 pm

AJ, That is my FAVORITE book. I absolutely LOVED it. I think it is a must read for everyone..

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Post by Skye » Sun Feb 18, 2007 8:33 am

Redshift. Thanks for posting that link! Wow! I got lost in the excerpts for about an hour. Fascinating stuff, AJ!
"Synchronicity Is God's Handwriting" ~ Marianne Williamson

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Re: The book that started my search

Post by Yoder777 » Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:09 am

How would you reconcile Storm's testimony to the Urantia Book's claim that there is no literal hell?

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Re: The book that started my search

Post by Yoder777 » Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:24 am

Hearing about and reading about these near death experiences has taught me that, after death, we will be contronted about the wrong we have done to ourselves and others, and that it will cause us torment, whether that lasts for a moment or for all eternity.

If we reject God's plan for our lives, we will receive the consequences. You can call it the seven worlds of spiritual darkness or you can call it hell, but I now believe that it exists, even though I didn't believe it or even want to believe it until recently.

This is from the Urantia Book:

“But for ages the seven prison worlds of spiritual darkness in Satania have constituted a solemn warning to all Nebadon, eloquently and effectively proclaiming the great truth ‘that the way of the transgressor is hard’; ‘that within every sin is concealed the seed of its own destruction’; that ‘the wages of sin is death.’” (611.7)

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Re: The book that started my search

Post by Sandy » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:02 am

Dear Yoder777,
I must admit I haven't read the book on this thread that has been laying here forgotten for some five years time so I cannot comment on it or even your view of near death experience. We each must form our own opinions and take with us that which we experience and feel propels us closer to universe understanding.

However... you provided a very short quote in support of the idea of prison worlds or hells from the Urantia book and taken out of context it would appear it is so..However, when you read carefully the entire section you see what those few simple sentences you provided really mean...

Please read again and take note of the part I have bolded....
From Paper 53 The Lucifer Rebellion found online http://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-sta ... -rebellion

8. The Son of Man on Urantia


(609.4) 53:8.1 Lucifer and Satan freely roamed the Satania system until the completion of the bestowal mission of Michael on Urantia. They were last on your world together during the time of their combined assault upon the Son of Man.

(609.5) 53:8.2 Formerly, when the Planetary Princes, the “Sons of God,” were periodically assembled, “Satan came also,” claiming that he represented all of the isolated worlds of the fallen Planetary Princes. But he has not been accorded such liberty on Jerusem since Michael’s terminal bestowal. Subsequent to their effort to corrupt Michael when in the bestowal flesh, all sympathy for Lucifer and Satan has perished throughout all Satania, that is, outside the isolated worlds of sin.

(609.6) 53:8.3 The bestowal of Michael terminated the Lucifer rebellion in all Satania aside from the planets of the apostate Planetary Princes. And this was the significance of Jesus’ personal experience, just before his death in the flesh, when he one day exclaimed to his disciples, “And I beheld Satan fall as lightning from heaven.” He had come with Lucifer to Urantia for the last crucial struggle.

(609.7) 53:8.4 The Son of Man was confident of success, and he knew that his triumph on your world would forever settle the status of his agelong enemies, not only in Satania but also in the other two systems where sin had entered. There was survival for mortals and security for angels when your Master, in reply to the Lucifer proposals, calmly and with divine assurance replied, “Get you behind me, Satan.” That was, in principle, the real end of the Lucifer rebellion. True, the Uversa tribunals have not yet rendered the executive decision regarding the appeal of Gabriel praying for the destruction of the rebels, but such a decree will, no doubt, be forthcoming in the fullness of time since the first step in the hearing of this case has already been taken.

(610.1) 53:8.5 Caligastia was recognized by the Son of Man as the technical Prince of Urantia up to near the time of his death. Said Jesus: “Now is the judgment of this world; now shall the prince of this world be cast down.” And then still nearer the completion of his lifework he announced, “The prince of this world is judged.” And it is this same dethroned and discredited Prince who was once termed “God of Urantia.”

(610.2) 53:8.6 The last act of Michael before leaving Urantia was to offer mercy to Caligastia and Daligastia, but they spurned his tender proffer. Caligastia, your apostate Planetary Prince, is still free on Urantia to prosecute his nefarious designs, but he has absolutely no power to enter the minds of men, neither can he draw near to their souls to tempt or corrupt them unless they really desire to be cursed with his wicked presence.

(610.3) 53:8.7 Before the bestowal of Michael these rulers of darkness sought to maintain their authority on Urantia, and they persistently withstood the minor and subordinate celestial personalities. But since the day of Pentecost this traitorous Caligastia and his equally contemptible associate, Daligastia, are servile before the divine majesty of the Paradise Thought Adjusters and the protective Spirit of Truth, the spirit of Michael, which has been poured out upon all flesh.

(610.4) 53:8.8 But even so, no fallen spirit ever did have the power to invade the minds or to harass the souls of the children of God. Neither Satan nor Caligastia could ever touch or approach the faith sons of God; faith is an effective armor against sin and iniquity. It is true: “He who is born of God keeps himself, and the wicked one touches him not.”

(610.5) 53:8.9 In general, when weak and dissolute mortals are supposed to be under the influence of devils and demons, they are merely being dominated by their own inherent and debased tendencies, being led away by their own natural propensities. The devil has been given a great deal of credit for evil which does not belong to him. Caligastia has been comparatively impotent since the cross of Christ.



9. Present Status of the Rebellion


(610.6) 53:9.1 Early in the days of the Lucifer rebellion, salvation was offered all rebels by Michael. To all who would show proof of sincere repentance, he offered, upon his attainment of complete universe sovereignty, forgiveness and reinstatement in some form of universe service. None of the leaders accepted this merciful proffer. But thousands of the angels and the lower orders of celestial beings, including hundreds of the Material Sons and Daughters, accepted the mercy proclaimed by the Panoptians and were given rehabilitation at the time of Jesus’ resurrection nineteen hundred years ago. These beings have since been transferred to the Father’s world of Jerusem, where they must be held, technically, until the Uversa courts hand down a decision in the matter of Gabriel vs. Lucifer. But no one doubts that, when the annihilation verdict is issued, these repentant and salvaged personalities will be exempted from the decree of extinction. These probationary souls now labor with the Panoptians in the work of caring for the Father’s world.

(611.1) 53:9.2 The archdeceiver has never been on Urantia since the days when he sought to turn back Michael from the purpose to complete the bestowal and to establish himself finally and securely as the unqualified ruler of Nebadon. Upon Michael’s becoming the settled head of the universe of Nebadon, Lucifer was taken into custody by the agents of the Uversa Ancients of Days and has since been a prisoner on satellite number one of the Father’s group of the transition spheres of Jerusem. And here the rulers of other worlds and systems behold the end of the unfaithful Sovereign of Satania. Paul knew of the status of these rebellious leaders following Michael’s bestowal, for he wrote of Caligastia’s chiefs as “spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.”

(611.2) 53:9.3 Michael, upon assuming the supreme sovereignty of Nebadon, petitioned the Ancients of Days for authority to intern all personalities concerned in the Lucifer rebellion pending the rulings of the superuniverse tribunals in the case of Gabriel vs. Lucifer, placed on the records of the Uversa supreme court almost two hundred thousand years ago, as you reckon time. Concerning the system capital group, the Ancients of Days granted the Michael petition with but a single exception: Satan was allowed to make periodic visits to the apostate princes on the fallen worlds until another Son of God should be accepted by such apostate worlds, or until such time as the courts of Uversa should begin the adjudication of the case of Gabriel vs. Lucifer.

(611.3) 53:9.4 Satan could come to Urantia because you had no Son of standing in residence — neither Planetary Prince nor Material Son. Machiventa Melchizedek has since been proclaimed vicegerent Planetary Prince of Urantia, and the opening of the case of Gabriel vs. Lucifer has signalized the inauguration of temporary planetary regimes on all the isolated worlds. It is true that Satan did periodically visit Caligastia and others of the fallen princes right up to the time of the presentation of these revelations, when there occurred the first hearing of Gabriel’s plea for the annihilation of the archrebels. Satan is now unqualifiedly detained on the Jerusem prison worlds.

(611.4) 53:9.5 Since Michael’s final bestowal no one in all Satania has desired to go to the prison worlds to minister to the interned rebels. And no more beings have been won to the deceiver’s cause. For nineteen hundred years the status has been unchanged.

(611.5) 53:9.6 We do not look for a removal of the present Satania restrictions until the Ancients of Days make final disposition of the archrebels. The system circuits will not be reinstated so long as Lucifer lives. Meantime, he is wholly inactive.

(611.6) 53:9.7 The rebellion has ended on Jerusem. It ends on the fallen worlds as fast as divine Sons arrive. We believe that all rebels who will ever accept mercy have done so. We await the flashing broadcast that will deprive these traitors of personality existence. We anticipate the verdict of Uversa will be announced by the executionary broadcast which will effect the annihilation of these interned rebels. Then will you look for their places, but they shall not be found. “And they who know you among the worlds will be astonished at you; you have been a terror, but never shall you be any more.” And thus shall all of these unworthy traitors “become as though they had not been.” All await the Uversa decree.

(611.7) 53:9.8 But for ages the seven prison worlds of spiritual darkness in Satania have constituted a solemn warning to all Nebadon, eloquently and effectively proclaiming the great truth “that the way of the transgressor is hard”; “that within every sin is concealed the seed of its own destruction”; that “the wages of sin is death.”


(612.1) 53:9.9 [Presented by Manovandet Melchizedek, onetime attached to the receivership of Urantia.]
Michael, upon assuming the supreme sovereignty of Nebadon, petitioned the Ancients of Days for authority to intern all personalities concerned in the Lucifer rebellion pending the rulings of the superuniverse tribunals in the case of Gabriel vs. Lucifer, placed on the records of the Uversa supreme court almost two hundred thousand years ago, as you reckon time. Concerning the system capital group, the Ancients of Days granted the Michael petition with but a single exception: Satan was allowed to make periodic visits to the apostate princes on the fallen worlds until another Son of God should be accepted by such apostate worlds, or until such time as the courts of Uversa should begin the adjudication of the case of Gabriel vs. Lucifer.
This insinuates that the prison worlds spoken of above are something recently petitioned in universe time (thousands of years for us humans) with a specific purpose.... to contain the rebels who refused rehabilitation and acceptance of their own forgiveness while the long "heavenly" trial was in progress. To my eyes, it does not say or even insinuate that this is provided for the lowest of God's children, the babies of the universe...us. Although in the milineas that follow our assention path, we too could find ourselves like thes arch rebels extinquished and never to exist if we fail to choose the path of Love and dedication to the father's will in far off days when we are able to understand exactly what that entails but few of us I would suspect are able to even understand what that choice means at this time living a mortal life on this confused world.
But for ages the seven prison worlds of spiritual darkness in Satania have constituted a solemn warning to all Nebadon, eloquently and effectively proclaiming the great truth “that the way of the transgressor is hard”; “that within every sin is concealed the seed of its own destruction”; that “the wages of sin is death.”
So it would seem that the ages this partucular passage is speaking of is the two hundred thousands of years where certain parts of the Worlds of the Father were used as a containment for those unrepentant rebels of the Lucifer rebellion.

another thought...
In paper 188 The Time of the Tomb http://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-sta ... -time-tomb The Urantia book describes sin in this way “”Sin is the conscious and deliberate rebellion against the Father’s will and the son’s laws by an individual will creature.”
Most of us

Once again I will place the entire section..worthy of a read to help complete understanding, at the very least as to what this book states repeatedly, in regards to a very loving and merciful God.
4. Meaning of the Death on the Cross

(2016.6) 188:4.1 Although Jesus did not die this death on the cross to atone for the racial guilt of mortal man nor to provide some sort of effective approach to an otherwise offended and unforgiving God; even though the Son of Man did not offer himself as a sacrifice to appease the wrath of God and to open the way for sinful man to obtain salvation; notwithstanding that these ideas of atonement and propitiation are erroneous, nonetheless, there are significances attached to this death of Jesus on the cross which should not be overlooked. It is a fact that Urantia has become known among other neighboring inhabited planets as the “World of the Cross.”

(2016.7) 188:4.2 Jesus desired to live a full mortal life in the flesh on Urantia. Death is, ordinarily, a part of life. Death is the last act in the mortal drama. In your well-meant efforts to escape the superstitious errors of the false interpretation of the meaning of the death on the cross, you should be careful not to make the great mistake of failing to perceive the true significance and the genuine import of the Master’s death.

(2016.8) 188:4.3 Mortal man was never the property of the archdeceivers. Jesus did not die to ransom man from the clutch of the apostate rulers and fallen princes of the spheres. The Father in heaven never conceived of such crass injustice as damning a mortal soul because of the evil-doing of his ancestors. Neither was the Master’s death on the cross a sacrifice which consisted in an effort to pay God a debt which the race of mankind had come to owe him. *

(2016.9) 188:4.4 Before Jesus lived on earth, you might possibly have been justified in believing in such a God, but not since the Master lived and died among your fellow mortals. Moses taught the dignity and justice of a Creator God; but Jesus portrayed the love and mercy of a heavenly Father.

(2016.10) 188:4.5 The animal nature — the tendency toward evil-doing — may be hereditary, but sin is not transmitted from parent to child. Sin is the act of conscious and deliberate rebellion against the Father’s will and the Sons’ laws by an individual will creature. *

(2017.1) 188:4.6 Jesus lived and died for a whole universe, not just for the races of this one world. While the mortals of the realms had salvation even before Jesus lived and died on Urantia, it is nevertheless a fact that his bestowal on this world greatly illuminated the way of salvation; his death did much to make forever plain the certainty of mortal survival after death in the flesh.

(2017.2) 188:4.7 Though it is hardly proper to speak of Jesus as a sacrificer, a ransomer, or a redeemer, it is wholly correct to refer to him as a savior. He forever made the way of salvation (survival) more clear and certain; he did better and more surely show the way of salvation for all the mortals of all the worlds of the universe of Nebadon.

(2017.3) 188:4.8 When once you grasp the idea of God as a true and loving Father, the only concept which Jesus ever taught, you must forthwith, in all consistency, utterly abandon all those primitive notions about God as an offended monarch, a stern and all-powerful ruler whose chief delight is to detect his subjects in wrongdoing and to see that they are adequately punished, unless some being almost equal to himself should volunteer to suffer for them, to die as a substitute and in their stead. The whole idea of ransom and atonement is incompatible with the concept of God as it was taught and exemplified by Jesus of Nazareth. The infinite love of God is not secondary to anything in the divine nature.

(2017.4) 188:4.9 All this concept of atonement and sacrificial salvation is rooted and grounded in selfishness. Jesus taught that service to one’s fellows is the highest concept of the brotherhood of spirit believers. Salvation should be taken for granted by those who believe in the fatherhood of God. The believer’s chief concern should not be the selfish desire for personal salvation but rather the unselfish urge to love and, therefore, serve one’s fellows even as Jesus loved and served mortal men.

(2017.5) 188:4.10 Neither do genuine believers trouble themselves so much about the future punishment of sin. The real believer is only concerned about present separation from God. True, wise fathers may chasten their sons, but they do all this in love and for corrective purposes. They do not punish in anger, neither do they chastise in retribution.

(2017.6) 188:4.11 Even if God were the stern and legal monarch of a universe in which justice ruled supreme, he certainly would not be satisfied with the childish scheme of substituting an innocent sufferer for a guilty offender.

(2017.7) 188:4.12 The great thing about the death of Jesus, as it is related to the enrichment of human experience and the enlargement of the way of salvation, is not the fact of his death but rather the superb manner and the matchless spirit in which he met death.

(2017.8) 188:4.13 This entire idea of the ransom of the atonement places salvation upon a plane of unreality; such a concept is purely philosophic. Human salvation is real; it is based on two realities which may be grasped by the creature’s faith and thereby become incorporated into individual human experience: the fact of the fatherhood of God and its correlated truth, the brotherhood of man. It is true, after all, that you are to be “forgiven your debts, even as you forgive your debtors.”


5. Lessons from the Cross

(2017.9) 188:5.1 The cross of Jesus portrays the full measure of the supreme devotion of the true shepherd for even the unworthy members of his flock. It forever places all relations between God and man upon the family basis. God is the Father; man is his son. Love, the love of a father for his son, becomes the central truth in the universe relations of Creator and creature — not the justice of a king which seeks satisfaction in the sufferings and punishment of the evil-doing subject.

(2018.1) 188:5.2 The cross forever shows that the attitude of Jesus toward sinners was neither condemnation nor condonation, but rather eternal and loving salvation. Jesus is truly a savior in the sense that his life and death do win men over to goodness and righteous survival. Jesus loves men so much that his love awakens the response of love in the human heart. Love is truly contagious and eternally creative. Jesus’ death on the cross exemplifies a love which is sufficiently strong and divine to forgive sin and swallow up all evil-doing. Jesus disclosed to this world a higher quality of righteousness than justice — mere technical right and wrong. Divine love does not merely forgive wrongs; it absorbs and actually destroys them. The forgiveness of love utterly transcends the forgiveness of mercy. Mercy sets the guilt of evil-doing to one side; but love destroys forever the sin and all weakness resulting therefrom. Jesus brought a new method of living to Urantia. He taught us not to resist evil but to find through him a goodness which effectually destroys evil. The forgiveness of Jesus is not condonation; it is salvation from condemnation. Salvation does not slight wrongs; it makes them right. True love does not compromise nor condone hate; it destroys it. The love of Jesus is never satisfied with mere forgiveness. The Master’s love implies rehabilitation, eternal survival. It is altogether proper to speak of salvation as redemption if you mean this eternal rehabilitation.

(2018.2) 188:5.3 Jesus, by the power of his personal love for men, could break the hold of sin and evil. He thereby set men free to choose better ways of living. Jesus portrayed a deliverance from the past which in itself promised a triumph for the future. Forgiveness thus provided salvation. The beauty of divine love, once fully admitted to the human heart, forever destroys the charm of sin and the power of evil.

(2018.3) 188:5.4 The sufferings of Jesus were not confined to the crucifixion. In reality, Jesus of Nazareth spent upward of twenty-five years on the cross of a real and intense mortal existence. The real value of the cross consists in the fact that it was the supreme and final expression of his love, the completed revelation of his mercy.

(2018.4) 188:5.5 On millions of inhabited worlds, tens of trillions of evolving creatures who may have been tempted to give up the moral struggle and abandon the good fight of faith, have taken one more look at Jesus on the cross and then have forged on ahead, inspired by the sight of God’s laying down his incarnate life in devotion to the unselfish service of man.

(2018.5) 188:5.6 The triumph of the death on the cross is all summed up in the spirit of Jesus’ attitude toward those who assailed him. He made the cross an eternal symbol of the triumph of love over hate and the victory of truth over evil when he prayed, “Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do.” That devotion of love was contagious throughout a vast universe; the disciples caught it from their Master. The very first teacher of his gospel who was called upon to lay down his life in this service, said, as they stoned him to death, “Lay not this sin to their charge.”

(2018.6) 188:5.7 The cross makes a supreme appeal to the best in man because it discloses one who was willing to lay down his life in the service of his fellow men. Greater love no man can have than this: that he would be willing to lay down his life for his friends — and Jesus had such a love that he was willing to lay down his life for his enemies, a love greater than any which had hitherto been known on earth.

(2019.1) 188:5.8 On other worlds, as well as on Urantia, this sublime spectacle of the death of the human Jesus on the cross of Golgotha has stirred the emotions of mortals, while it has aroused the highest devotion of the angels.

(2019.2) 188:5.9 The cross is that high symbol of sacred service, the devotion of one’s life to the welfare and salvation of one’s fellows. The cross is not the symbol of the sacrifice of the innocent Son of God in the place of guilty sinners and in order to appease the wrath of an offended God, but it does stand forever, on earth and throughout a vast universe, as a sacred symbol of the good bestowing themselves upon the evil and thereby saving them by this very devotion of love. The cross does stand as the token of the highest form of unselfish service, the supreme devotion of the full bestowal of a righteous life in the service of wholehearted ministry, even in death, the death of the cross. And the very sight of this great symbol of the bestowal life of Jesus truly inspires all of us to want to go and do likewise.

(2019.3) 188:5.10 When thinking men and women look upon Jesus as he offers up his life on the cross, they will hardly again permit themselves to complain at even the severest hardships of life, much less at petty harassments and their many purely fictitious grievances. His life was so glorious and his death so triumphant that we are all enticed to a willingness to share both. There is true drawing power in the whole bestowal of Michael, from the days of his youth to this overwhelming spectacle of his death on the cross.

(2019.4) 188:5.11 Make sure, then, that when you view the cross as a revelation of God, you do not look with the eyes of the primitive man nor with the viewpoint of the later barbarian, both of whom regarded God as a relentless Sovereign of stern justice and rigid law-enforcement. Rather, make sure that you see in the cross the final manifestation of the love and devotion of Jesus to his life mission of bestowal upon the mortal races of his vast universe. See in the death of the Son of Man the climax of the unfolding of the Father’s divine love for his sons of the mortal spheres. The cross thus portrays the devotion of willing affection and the bestowal of voluntary salvation upon those who are willing to receive such gifts and devotion. There was nothing in the cross which the Father required — only that which Jesus so willingly gave, and which he refused to avoid.

(2019.5) 188:5.12 If man cannot otherwise appreciate Jesus and understand the meaning of his bestowal on earth, he can at least comprehend the fellowship of his mortal sufferings. No man can ever fear that the Creator does not know the nature or extent of his temporal afflictions.

(2019.6) 188:5.13 We know that the death on the cross was not to effect man’s reconciliation to God but to stimulate man’s realization of the Father’s eternal love and his Son’s unending mercy, and to broadcast these universal truths to a whole universe.
Yes, we humans sin sometimes we sin with fore knowledge and sometimes without often without even understanding the extent of this wrong on those around us. But thankfully, through Jesus's words, His life and His example, while serving His seventh bestowal on our world, He repeatedly reminds us of God's great love for us, his children. And so I believe that much help, understanding and caring awaits us in the next realm. It is not something we ever need dread or fear as we each inch ever closer to our Perfect Parent in Paradise.
With that said, we will also need to understand our mortal lives and in the understanding and acceptance that we did the best we could with what we know..forgive ourselves and and ask forgiveness from those we have wronged. It is with that clean heart we are then able to reach for the stars!
Love,
Sandy
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.

~ Chief Seattle ~

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Re: The book that started my search

Post by Sandy » Tue Sep 18, 2012 6:15 am

Hi Yoder777,

This may support in part what you mentioned in your post as it describes the adjustments we all face as we arrive on Mansonia One. At least it does describe a period of adjustment.
However, we are not alone and we do have help in this adjustments and in the understanding of our lives lived on earth. Forgiveness of ourselves is often the harshest of lessons and the bitterest pill to swallow. I could see where it could be a hell raging within our own heart should we back off and refuse to allow unconditional Love soothe it into acceptance.

http://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-sta ... ion-worlds
Paper 47: The Seven mansion Worlds
3. The First Mansion World

(532.7) 47:3.1 On the mansion worlds the resurrected mortal survivors resume their lives just where they left off when overtaken by death. When you go from Urantia to the first mansion world, you will notice considerable change, but if you had come from a more normal and progressive sphere of time, you would hardly notice the difference except for the fact that you were in possession of a different body; the tabernacle of flesh and blood has been left behind on the world of nativity.

(532.8) 47:3.2 The very center of all activities on the first mansion world is the resurrection hall, the enormous temple of personality assembly. This gigantic structure consists of the central rendezvous of the seraphic destiny guardians, the Thought Adjusters, and the archangels of the resurrection. The Life Carriers also function with these celestial beings in the resurrection of the dead.

(533.1) 47:3.3 The mortal-mind transcripts and the active creature-memory patterns as transformed from the material levels to the spiritual are the individual possession of the detached Thought Adjusters; these spiritized factors of mind, memory, and creature personality are forever a part of such Adjusters. The creature mind-matrix and the passive potentials of identity are present in the morontia soul intrusted to the keeping of the seraphic destiny guardians. And it is the reuniting of the morontia-soul trust of the seraphim and the spirit-mind trust of the Adjuster that reassembles creature personality and constitutes resurrection of a sleeping survivor.

(533.2) 47:3.4 If a transitory personality of mortal origin should never be thus reassembled, the spirit elements of the nonsurviving mortal creature would forever continue as an integral part of the individual experiential endowment of the onetime indwelling Adjuster.

(533.3) 47:3.5 From the Temple of New Life there extend seven radial wings, the resurrection halls of the mortal races. Each of these structures is devoted to the assembly of one of the seven races of time. There are one hundred thousand personal resurrection chambers in each of these seven wings terminating in the circular class assembly halls, which serve as the awakening chambers for as many as one million individuals. These halls are surrounded by the personality assembly chambers of the blended races of the normal post-Adamic worlds. Regardless of the technique which may be employed on the individual worlds of time in connection with special or dispensational resurrections, the real and conscious reassembly of actual and complete personality takes place in the resurrection halls of mansonia number one. Throughout all eternity you will recall the profound memory impressions of your first witnessing of these resurrection mornings.

(533.4) 47:3.6 From the resurrection halls you proceed to the Melchizedek sector, where you are assigned permanent residence. Then you enter upon ten days of personal liberty. You are free to explore the immediate vicinity of your new home and to familiarize yourself with the program which lies immediately ahead. You also have time to gratify your desire to consult the registry and call upon your loved ones and other earth friends who may have preceded you to these worlds. At the end of your ten-day period of leisure you begin the second step in the Paradise journey, for the mansion worlds are actual training spheres, not merely detention planets.

(533.5) 47:3.7 On mansion world number one (or another in case of advanced status) you will resume your intellectual training and spiritual development at the exact level whereon they were interrupted by death. Between the time of planetary death or translation and resurrection on the mansion world, mortal man gains absolutely nothing aside from experiencing the fact of survival. You begin over there right where you leave off down here.

(533.6) 47:3.8 Almost the entire experience of mansion world number one pertains to deficiency ministry. Survivors arriving on this first of the detention spheres present so many and such varied defects of creature character and deficiencies of mortal experience that the major activities of the realm are occupied with the correction and cure of these manifold legacies of the life in the flesh on the material evolutionary worlds of time and space.

(534.1) 47:3.9 The sojourn on mansion world number one is designed to develop mortal survivors at least up to the status of the post-Adamic dispensation on the normal evolutionary worlds. Spiritually, of course, the mansion world students are far in advance of such a state of mere human development.

(534.2) 47:3.10 If you are not to be detained on mansion world number one, at the end of ten days you will enter the translation sleep and proceed to world number two, and every ten days thereafter you will thus advance until you arrive on the world of your assignment.

(534.3) 47:3.11 The center of the seven major circles of the first mansion world administration is occupied by the temple of the Morontia Companions, the personal guides assigned to ascending mortals. These companions are the offspring of the local universe Mother Spirit, and there are several million of them on the morontia worlds of Satania. Aside from those assigned as group companions, you will have much to do with the interpreters and translators, the building custodians, and the excursion supervisors. And all of these companions are most co-operative with those who have to do with developing your personality factors of mind and spirit within the morontia body.

(534.4) 47:3.12 As you start out on the first mansion world, one Morontia Companion is assigned to each company of one thousand ascending mortals, but you will encounter larger numbers as you progress through the seven mansion spheres. These beautiful and versatile beings are companionable associates and charming guides. They are free to accompany individuals or selected groups to any of the transition-culture spheres, including their satellite worlds. They are the excursion guides and leisure associates of all ascending mortals. They often accompany survivor groups on periodic visits to Jerusem, and on any day you are there, you can go to the registry sector of the system capital and meet ascending mortals from all seven of the mansion worlds since they freely journey back and forth between their residential abodes and the system headquarters.
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.

~ Chief Seattle ~

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Re: The book that started my search

Post by JohnR » Sun Sep 23, 2012 4:36 pm

Well, from what I can see, Reverend Storm is still seeing the truth through dark glasses. I quote from his book:

"God will ultimately judge every individual...."

I'm not buying that in any way shape or form. In my understanding GOD DOES NOT JUDGE ANYONE. God is impersonal. God is detached and at the same time loves us more that any of us could imagine possible. We judge ourselves.

"God will allow people to be dragged into darkness...".

Again, God has nothing at all to do with that. Again, God is impersonal. We all create our own realities every day by what we perceive, think, feel, and believe, in this world and the next. In other words, if you believe in the concept of Hell, then that is quite likely where you will find yourself initially, after death of the physical body.

As Geoff once said to me: "That's just Spirituality 101 mate"!

Exactly what I would expect from religion. Controlling the masses through fear. But God is Love. And the beauty of it is that everything is as it should be for him, (and all of us for that matter). We all have free will and are under no pressure. We are all splinters of the One, no more, no less. :|

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Re: The book that started my search

Post by Yoder777 » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:33 pm

I posted on the topic of Howard Storm's NDE before I read his book My Descent into Death and I have since discovered more similarities between Storm's account of his NDE and the Urantia Book.

In the book, Storm claims that God revealed to him that there are multiple universes with many planets in which the Son of God has been incarnated, that God's presence is located in the geographic center of infinity and surrounded by heavenly planets, that God judges us by our sincere faith rather than what organized religion we belong to, that the ultimate result of iniquity for those who after death choose not to accept God is annihilation, that there are millions of angels, each belonging to a group with a specific function, including the control of evolution, that there will be world peace two hundred years from now in which our spirituality and mental functioning is so advanced that we no longer need technology, and there are still more similarities that I have not listed.

This leads me to conclude that either Storm plagiarized the Urantia Book or that his experience is the greatest evidence for the veracity of the Urantia Book that I've ever seen. There is no evidence I've seen that he read or even heard of the Urantia Book before writing My Descent into Death, and there's no reason to believe that his NDE was a hallucination since, as an atheist, he did not believe in the afterlife in the first place.

After comparing Storm's account to the Urantia Book, I am convinced that his time spent after death was not in the Biblical hell but in one of the seven worlds of spiritual darkness as explained in the Urantia Book. In Storm's account, rather than there being a Biblical lake of fire, he was simply in darkness surrounded by other lost souls who physically and emotionally tormented him. When he cried for God's help, Jesus came and saved him. Those left behind were the ones who refuse God's help and, therefore, will ultimately be annihilated.

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Re: The book that started my search

Post by Judy » Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:14 pm

Dear Yoder777,
Thank you for your post. I enjoyed reading it and will go to Amazon and order " My Descent into Death " right after I post this response. I am a long time Urantia book reader and very much enjoy accounts that re-enforce it's words. I do not require reinforcement as to the validity of the Urantia book, I know that it is genuine. Thank you once again.
Love Judy......M.
If the faith of the Most High has entered your heart, then shall you abide free from fear throughout all the days of your life. (The Urantia Book, p. 1443, par. 5)

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Re: The book that started my search

Post by jfarris » Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:14 pm

Ok, I haven't read this entire thread. But, I did watch the youtube of Storm and then read the his book. I really liked the book. I feel his account is 100% truthful and just as real as anything could be. It is his actual experience which has much in common with the initial experience of many people after death. However, I want to speak to the issue of "God judging us"

God doesn't judge us. Just like he didn't personally create the earth in 7 days. Did he create it? Yes, of course but only in the most primal way.

It seems to me that God is very fond of self-organizing systems. Such as the way planets and star systems are formed, and the way evolution proceeds from only a very primitive life form which is created and then implanted by Life Carriers. Left to evolve over hundreds of thousands of years ( or longer?), this eventually culminates in will creatures, such as ourselves, who make decisions every day with spiritual import.

God sets the universe in existence and upholds it from his existence as the First Source and Center. But back to my point, I believe our salvation and "judgement" is much the same. We judge ourselves by a system that doesn't require intervention to proceed. We have do have to deal with the negative thought forms that we created for ourselves during life. Over and over, in most cases, until we understand and accept the truth of our lives both good or bad.

I believe these thought forms can be any variety of things that a person has conceptualized and heaven or hell. Like maybe for some hell is a fiery place where they don't burn up. Or heaven, a riverside where all people do is praise Jesus and sing for eternity. Eventually these simple conceptions are expanded and at that point we have opportunity to begin our climb upward through spiritual levels. Working out our on salvation, if you will, At our own pace.

Like I said I didn't read the whole thread before I posted this, so it might not even be relevant. But this post is something I have wanted to clarify personally for a while now.

Jody
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Re: The book that started my search

Post by 11light11 » Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:21 pm

Jody, I really enjoyed what you wrote, and I like your new picture! I forgot to say that earlier when everyone else was raving about it. :lol:

I've been wondering about thought forms for years. Do you think -- from what you are saying here -- that expectation has a lot to do with what one finds, upon dying? For instance if you are not of the Judeo-Christian mindset, if you grew up on the Tibetan Book of the Dead -- what they describe as happening to the soul, as it passes through various levels and stages, after death -- is so extremely different from what the Judeo-Christian traditions say. There are so many detailed levels, beings you meet, tests you must pass through -- and chants you must keep up throughout the experience, while someone chants at you (in the living world) for days after your death.

Do you suppose that if you expect all that -- you meet it? While the Hindus have their own highly organized system they anticipate - so do they meet that? And meanwhile someone who anticipates Purgatory/Hell in the Christian view, could meet some stages that resemble that? . . .In other words the "thought forms" you might meet, upon crossing over -- might they merely be your own projected thought forms, that you built up over your own life time? Or the thought forms of the billions who predeceased you (Quite a few running rampant, eh?!)?

Going back to the idea that God does not judge us -- but that we progress spiritually through taking our own view of our actions, and finding remorse within our hearts . . .I've heard some in varying spiritual traditions (as opposed to religious traditions) say that we go through a "Life Review" when we die. We witness every moment of our life, and we feel and witness whatever we caused others to feel, through the actions we undertook. In this idea, since time is irrelevant after death, we go through this process 'for a long time' (relatively speaking), because we aren't just witnessing our own life -- but for long sections, repeatedly, we live through/witness/experience those whose lives we impacted. The example I read said: Say you were someone who made major decisions during a war time, like Curtis LeMay, in the Pacific Theatre during WWII. The number of lives he impacted total in the hundreds of thousands. So -- you can imagine how many separate 'perspectives' or lives he'd have to enter into, to experience the way he impacted each of them - as he passed through his "Life Review" -- and that doesn't even include the boy who sat next to him in the 2nd grade, whom he teased. His "Life Review" could take a very, very long time to 'pass through.'

In the context of this idea, "God is not judging you" or punishing you -- you are free to draw your own conclusions; experience your own inherent emotional response. One would assume/anticipate that remorse might rise up even in the unrepentant type, for it would be perhaps the first time they witnessed how they'd impacted others (through living/experiencing through their perspectives).

I never read the whole of the Urantia Papers and I wonder if this idea of the "Life Review" is mentioned at all, there? Does this have anything to do with what you're talking about, Jody?

Thanks for the very thought-provoking discussion! :hithere

With love & gratitude,
Michele :kiss:

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Re: The book that started my search

Post by Yoder777 » Thu Oct 25, 2012 11:24 pm

Another similarity I forgot to mention is that Storm claims God revealed to him that, after we die, we are reborn into higher and higher worlds to prepare us for God's presense in Paradise. Yet another similarity is that it explains angels having the ability to project life events in a way very similar to what the Urantia Book says about reflectivity.

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Re: The book that started my search

Post by jfarris » Fri Oct 26, 2012 1:49 am

11light11 wrote:Jody, I really enjoyed what you wrote, and I like your new picture! I forgot to say that earlier when everyone else was raving about it. :lol:

I've been wondering about thought forms for years. Do you think -- from what you are saying here -- that expectation has a lot to do with what one finds, upon dying? For instance if you are not of the Judeo-Christian mindset, if you grew up on the Tibetan Book of the Dead -- what they describe as happening to the soul, as it passes through various levels and stages, after death -- is so extremely different from what the Judeo-Christian traditions say. There are so many detailed levels, beings you meet, tests you must pass through -- and chants you must keep up throughout the experience, while someone chants at you (in the living world) for days after your death.

Do you suppose that if you expect all that -- you meet it? While the Hindus have their own highly organized system they anticipate - so do they meet that? And meanwhile someone who anticipates Purgatory/Hell in the Christian view, could meet some stages that resemble that? . . .In other words the "thought forms" you might meet, upon crossing over -- might they merely be your own projected thought forms, that you built up over your own life time? Or the thought forms of the billions who predeceased you (Quite a few running rampant, eh?!)?

Going back to the idea that God does not judge us -- but that we progress spiritually through taking our own view of our actions, and finding remorse within our hearts . . .I've heard some in varying spiritual traditions (as opposed to religious traditions) say that we go through a "Life Review" when we die. We witness every moment of our life, and we feel and witness whatever we caused others to feel, through the actions we undertook. In this idea, since time is irrelevant after death, we go through this process 'for a long time' (relatively speaking), because we aren't just witnessing our own life -- but for long sections, repeatedly, we live through/witness/experience those whose lives we impacted. The example I read said: Say you were someone who made major decisions during a war time, like Curtis LeMay, in the Pacific Theatre during WWII. The number of lives he impacted total in the hundreds of thousands. So -- you can imagine how many separate 'perspectives' or lives he'd have to enter into, to experience the way he impacted each of them - as he passed through his "Life Review" -- and that doesn't even include the boy who sat next to him in the 2nd grade, whom he teased. His "Life Review" could take a very, very long time to 'pass through.'

In the context of this idea, "God is not judging you" or punishing you -- you are free to draw your own conclusions; experience your own inherent emotional response. One would assume/anticipate that remorse might rise up even in the unrepentant type, for it would be perhaps the first time they witnessed how they'd impacted others (through living/experiencing through their perspectives).

I never read the whole of the Urantia Papers and I wonder if this idea of the "Life Review" is mentioned at all, there? Does this have anything to do with what you're talking about, Jody?

Thanks for the very thought-provoking discussion! :hithere

With love & gratitude,
Michele :kiss:
Hi Michelle and thanks! :oops: :love

Yes, exactly. Initially, we meet what we believe that we will meet. And this is because that as we now think about the hereafter, we are creating thought forms or astral shells of the same, which grow more dense(?) or organized with each minute spent thinking of them. Of course, these thought forms can and do affect our astral bodies even while we are yet material beings. However, this is much more pronounced and visible to us once we lose our material aspect.

Much of the info that I have read concerning thought forms comes from various book/writers of Theosophy. I remember when I first came across this subject and found it very interesting because its name is a combination of Theology and Philosophy, or so it seems to me. The name is a correct description of the subject itself.

If you are ineterested, there are several 19th and early 20th century texts available freely on the Project Gutenberg. Just search for Theosophy as a topic or even Annie Besant (sp?) as an author. It seems to me that all of the information is still relevant today, even though much less well known that it was 100 years ago. Strange, huh? hehe



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Re: The book that started my search

Post by sammy » Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:20 am

I think Geoff talked about this theory at one point.

I'll just add that I've read a few books during the last year by different authors who have had death experiences...they do seem to vary, and from the books I've read, I came away believing that the individual's experience did in fact reflect the individual's beliefs.

It should be interesting when I get over there, because I definitely believe we go on from this life to another "life", but I am SO freakin' open minded that I don't have a firm belief of what it will be like. If this theory is correct, with how open minded I am I could well have multiple personalities on the other side :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: The book that started my search

Post by jfarris » Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:27 pm

sammy wrote:I think Geoff talked about this theory at one point.

I'll just add that I've read a few books during the last year by different authors who have had death experiences...they do seem to vary, and from the books I've read, I came away believing that the individual's experience did in fact reflect the individual's beliefs.

It should be interesting when I get over there, because I definitely believe we go on from this life to another "life", but I am SO freakin' open minded that I don't have a firm belief of what it will be like. If this theory is correct, with how open minded I am I could well have multiple personalities on the other side :lol: :lol: :lol:

LOVE!!!!
Sammy
:lol: :lol: :lol:

And you will feel right at home, won't ya, Sammy!! :finger: :finger: (poking you in the ribs, just a little)
:love :loves :kiss: :bana:

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Re: The book that started my search

Post by sammy » Fri Oct 26, 2012 4:34 pm

Jody :lol: :lol: :lol: YUP!
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Re: The book that started my search

Post by 11light11 » Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:01 pm

Well -- what happens, then, to the atheist, who lives his whole life totally convinced we stop when we die? Does he find only white space? What happens with him?! :shock: I always think of Freud, who, despite his many 'brushes' with the other side, the many synchronicities he'd experienced -- remained a very rigid, staunch atheist, an empiricist. I always fantasized about him being delighted, very pleasantly surprised to find out he didn't "Stop." But if the thought forms he'd built up were that he would stop, what do you suppose he found upon dying?!

:sunflower: Thanks for your great responses, Jody and Sammy! :kiss: Love, Michele

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Re: The book that started my search

Post by sammy » Fri Oct 26, 2012 7:15 pm

Geoff had a book that he once recommended that touched on this subject...I don't have time to find the book title right now, but there was an example about a man who did not believe in life after death and he essentially stayed asleep for a LONG time...I'll have to dig this up and re-read it, because I don't recall what causes one to "wake up".

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Re: The book that started my search

Post by sammy » Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:29 pm

You could look throught this book list...I have to do a little more digging, I THINK the book is either "Gone West" or "Through the Mists"...I will do more digging and let you know what I find.
http://new-birth.net/books_life_after_death.htm

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Re: The book that started my search

Post by sammy » Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:32 pm

I think this is the thread where Geoff and I were discussing something like this:
(thread now gone)

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