30 Years among the Dead

[lilly]

Hi Geoff and Gypsie,
I am very pleased to have somewhere to discuss these matters.
Love to you both lilly xxxxxx

[Robert]

George,

I'm posting to this old "thread", as a previous discussion of ghosts, after George's "One More Look Around" [Part 1 & 2, 8-30-2010 and 9- - 2010].

“Free will is paramount, not ever negotiable, except under rare circumstances of universe emergencies when free will is thwarted. Even on my home planet, Panoptia, there are still occurrences of sudden demise, whilst the majority of our (one) race are so advanced, so in touch, they are well aware of the precise time of their mortal demise. For most of your world, just some of my world, the moment of passing is a most confusing experience. Where are they now? Still on earth. However, they are no longer in the dimension they know so well – their bodies.

“Their lives suddenly cut short, they may well be burdened with a residue of soul-felt wishes, obligations, even deep-felt guilt. Your 1,111 loyal Secondary Midwayers each have untold numbers of stories to tell about souls unwilling to depart from the regular company they kept, places they frequented, or tasks to be completed, but they soon find out that no one in the flesh can see them. Long ago, your friend from the Netherlands wanted to visit. He had saved his money, planned the trip, taken early retirement. He refused to leave this earth.

“There was nothing to be done, but to transport him halfway across the world before he would realize that all was well with you. It is on such occasions when the mid-mind (soul) insists on its free-will rights that Spirit tarries to advise Seraphim and Midwayers of the best way to proceed to lessen the trauma of perceived unfinished business. In a world such as yours, seen by many as still quite barbaric, many a soul is at a dreadful loss to explain the sudden departure from the body, the new environment now perceived, even continued life.

“Life continues, and it is eternal if one so wishes it to be by not defaulting on the task to become perfect in all respects, as the Creator of all ever was, is, and will be. As those who unexpectedly depart must decide to leave all worldly things behind, perhaps but for one more look around, or some routine action to play out, so those who are left need to let go of them in peace. Separation is but a blink of the eye of time in all eternity.

“This is Samuel, saying good day on behalf of all in the Progress Contingent.”

George,

I know you have previously communicated about rescuing deceased people "stuck" in some way, that is sending them on to the Light. I once sensed the presence of my grandfather, but did not see anything, when I was staying with my grandmother, while my grandfather was in the hospital. The event lasted for only a moment. Shortly thereafter, a friend came to the house to announce that my grandfather had passed on.
Knowing the Urantia Book, as I do now, I must consider that event to be the moment before death. He was obviously nervious and frightened.

But I don't see how your Samuel, and others, can be correct about souls staying on Earth in a confused state, for some time. The Urantia Book is very clear and specific about that. At the moment of death, a person becomes unconscious, "asleep", and does not regain consciousness until on the Mansion Worlds. The quote is below.

112:3.7 Upon death the Thought Adjuster temporarily loses personality, but not identity; the human subject temporarily loses identity, but not personality; on the mansion worlds both reunite in eternal manifestation. Never does a departed Thought Adjuster return to earth as the being of former indwelling; never is personality manifested without the human will; and never does a dis-Adjustered human being after death manifest active identity or in any manner establish communication with the living beings of earth. Such dis-Adjustered souls are wholly and absolutely unconscious during the long or short sleep of death. There can be no exhibition of any sort of personality or ability to engage in communications with other personalities until after completion of survival.

Geoff,

I assume you've read this quote too. How can you believe in earthbound "spirits", and recommend that "30 Years ..." book?

[Geoff]

Geoff,

I assume you've read this quote too. How can you believe in earthbound "spirits", and recommend that "30 Years ..." book?

Yes, and the answer is either the Ubook is totally wrong, or seriously summarised. There is just FAR too much evidence to the contrary. For example, the Urantia Book does not discuss the Astral Plane, something I think Bzutu has called the "Borderlands", That is the origin of pretty much all these strange "beings" or really their strange state. I don't believe they are "earth Bound" as many spiritualists teach, but I do believe that if you still have an astral body, you wont be going to the Mansion Worlds any time soon. And, even after they do depart, they may leave an "active" astral shell.

You may like to read my latest description of the Astral Plane, found in this pdf: http://new-birth.net/booklet/GettingOut.PDF But I acknowledge I have learnt a few things since 2004, but I still think this book of this thread is WELL worth reading.

love,
Geoff

[George]

Hi all,

At some time in the next few days the Chief will talk about "departures from the norm".

Seems not one of us has it right, but we might "move closer to an understanding".

God bless...
George.

[LurkerAbyss]

I look forward to further insight from the Chief.

I am very green on the topic, but I suspect that where somebody is after death has a lot less to do with "where" they actually are and more to do with the "whats" and "whys" that have been propagated in the mortal time-space by thought power and the Free Will.

[Robert]

George and Geoff,

Thank you for your replies. I have noticed the The Urantia Book is very brief on any one subject, necessary due to the length of the book. And I can hardly argue with the kind of intelligence coming thru Celestial transmissions.

Some of my (channeled?) movies were about ghosts, such as Ghost. And I've struggled to explain what so many people have descibed as "seeing ghosts". My best idea is that intense and traumatic events, in a person's life, can be imprinted on the material surroundings, such as a home. Then these "memories" can be sensed or seen by sensitive people, appearing to be the living ghost of a person, but are not alive. Maybe this is the same as what Geoff descibes as an Astral Shell.

Life is always deeper and more complicated than first impressions.

[Geoff]

And I've struggled to explain what so many people have described as "seeing ghosts". My best idea is that intense and traumatic events, in a person's life, can be imprinted on the material surroundings, such as a home. Then these "memories" can be sensed or seen by sensitive people, appearing to be the living ghost of a person, but are not alive. Maybe this is the same as what Geoff descibes as an Astral Shell.

Yes that would be close. Bzutu called them something like "energetic signatures". Probably even closer. But my point is that is not an explanation for everything, and if you are interested, you need to read outside the Ubook. I have a very long list of good books on the subject here:

http://new-birth.net/books_life_after_death.htm

love,
Geoff

[Robert]

Geoff,

I looked at your site, thanks.

Have you read Dr. John Lerma's two books, Learning From the Light; and Into the Light? He is a Hospice (terminal patient care) doctor. He's witnessed 1000's of people passing over. He records that three weeks before death, Celestials start to appear, and also the patients see their deceased relatives. I don't know if the seeing relatives is a new phenomenon, because of the Correcting Time, because the Urantia Book also says that communication is not allowed from the Mansion Worlds.

[Geoff]

Geoff,

I looked at your site, thanks.

Have you read Dr. John Lerma's two books, Learning From the Light; and Into the Light? He is a Hospice (terminal patient care) doctor. He's witnessed 1000's of people passing over. He records that three weeks before death, Celestials start to appear, and also the patients see their deceased relatives. I don't know if the seeing relatives is a new phenomenon, because of the Correcting Time, because the Urantia Book also says that communication is not allowed from the Mansion Worlds.

Dear Robert,

No I have not read those books. Folks have been seeing deceased loved ones, or "angelic" helpers prior to their death for a very long time. The Ubook is wrong on that passage too. You may have received a recent Team transmit, went out yesterday, where Nebadonia makes yet another correction. It may be the case, on some worlds, that communication is not allowed. I do know that some sort of approval is required, and the topics to be discussed may also be censored, but communication between our worlds goes back to Biblical times, when Jesus talked to Moses and Elias, and more recently Swedenborg, who was taken in an OBE state, to the Mansion Worlds, and talked there with Michael. And of course James Padgett received some 2,500 individual communications in the time just preceding the Ubook.

love,
Geoff

[Robert]

Geoff,

I've been trying to find out more about Swedenborg's many Celestial visitations. The Swedenborg Church doesn't seem to be too interested in the Angel aspect. Do you have books on your site about Swedenborg's Angel experiences?

[Geoff]

Geoff,

I've been trying to find out more about Swedenborg's many Celestial visitations. The Swedenborg Church doesn't seem to be too interested in the Angel aspect. Do you have books on your site about Swedenborg's Angel experiences?

Indeed: Swedenborg

love,
Geoff