A new song shall be composed

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vonney
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A new song shall be composed

Post by vonney » Sat Feb 08, 2014 5:33 am

Sorry, I didn't know where else to post this: Here is my message

I have for a while now had the disquieting thought that the Urantia Book and its messages have the feel of the Old testament. The above message alluding to souls (albeit Lucifer et al) being annihilated is, for me at any rate, a cause for concern and rings some alarm bells. Can ANY soul be annihilated....and, if I read it correctly.... for not accepting forgiveness? I am confused, as I have been reading these messages for years, and have generally found them to be a source of peace, joy and inspiration.

However, there have been a few that have not rung "true". They definitely have a darker feel to them than other channelled writings I read, both from this and other sources. I can't even begin to imagine that I can, or could at any time during this life, understand the workings of the universe(s) we live in, but I did not think any soul would, or even could, be annihilated. There are still evil forces ruling the world...what of them? Why haven't they been dealt with...or is that, hopefully, imminent? It seems at the moment, that the more I read, the more confused I become. This is not a criticism - you are providing a wonderful service in spreading enlightenment, and please forgive me if I am wrong, but I am concerned about some aspects of the 11:11 messages. Many thanks for all your hard work,

Love and peace, Yvonne Hudson

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Re: A new song shall be composed

Post by overmind » Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:18 am

Hello Yvonne,

I sense the old annihilationism vs universal reconciliation debate, while the truth is somewhere in the middle. The thing is, when a being reaches a point of spiritual death, it becomes impossible to do the will of God. This has different contexts when discussing the positions of different sons of God, but the point is this: Lucifer absolutely refused to ever follow the will of the Father or the plans of Michael. Even if kept alive in a prison for eternity, he would never change his mind and accept mercy. The Ancients of Days act for the Trinity and are able to make this distinction. They can measure whether there is a hint of value (truth, beauty or goodness) left in an individual.

Lucifer and his associates had hundreds of thousands of years to change their ways, and eventually it reached the point where they had to choose whether to start doing good again or stop doing anything altogether. The universe cannot eternally sustain evil. When someone decides without a shadow of a doubt that they will never step outside of a life of iniquity, then they have chosen to be made unreal. Such beings would simply rather not exist then make the right decisions, be it out of pride or hatred. Such decisions are not performed out of ignorance. Humans who choose this path will know what they are doing. It is the same for those who learn about the ascension career and decide that it's not for them. An individual can only progress or regress, and while the amount of progress one can achieve is near-infinite, the amount of regression has a clear point of no return.

It is important to understand how the survival value of the soul is built up during life and how it can be squandered (which is in the UB). Humans simply aren't eternal until Adjuster fusion. If you are progressing to that point (even at a snail's pace), there is no way to die, but eternal life is not necessarily gained if you are still capable of choosing death. Adjuster fusion erases that potential, which is why it is called the ultimate decision.

It is also important to understand that because of the actions of Lucifer (and Caligastia), our progress as a species has been severely retarded (by thousands of years), much evil is still present in the world, there is much confusion about God and spirituality, billions live in physical, mental and spiritual poverty, and more people are choosing death than if we were on the right track from the start. Justice has to play a part at some point in time, and while the divine form of justice is rather slow, it is absolutely fair. Evil cannot go unpunished or unfixed forever, and if no amount of punishment or (accepted) rehabilitation can change an individual, then it is better for the entire universe that they cease to exist. I think it may be necessary for you to also understand what real liberty actually is, compared to the kind Lucifer tried to spread.

(613.2) 54:0.2 The Gods neither create evil nor permit sin and rebellion. Potential evil is time-existent in a universe embracing differential levels of perfection meanings and values. Sin is potential in all realms where imperfect beings are endowed with the ability to choose between good and evil. The very conflicting presence of truth and untruth, fact and falsehood, constitutes the potentiality of error. The deliberate choice of evil constitutes sin; the willful rejection of truth is error; the persistent pursuit of sin and error is iniquity.

(613.3) 54:1.1 Of all the perplexing problems growing out of the Lucifer rebellion, none has occasioned more difficulty than the failure of immature evolutionary mortals to distinguish between true and false liberty.

(613.4) 54:1.2 True liberty is the quest of the ages and the reward of evolutionary progress. False liberty is the subtle deception of the error of time and the evil of space. Enduring liberty is predicated on the reality of justice — intelligence, maturity, fraternity, and equity.

(613.5) 54:1.3 Liberty is a self-destroying technique of cosmic existence when its motivation is unintelligent, unconditioned, and uncontrolled. True liberty is progressively related to reality and is ever regardful of social equity, cosmic fairness, universe fraternity, and divine obligations.

(613.6) 54:1.4 Liberty is suicidal when divorced from material justice, intellectual fairness, social forbearance, moral duty, and spiritual values. Liberty is nonexistent apart from cosmic reality, and all personality reality is proportional to its divinity relationships.

(613.7) 54:1.5 Unbridled self-will and unregulated self-expression equal unmitigated selfishness, the acme of ungodliness. Liberty without the associated and ever-increasing conquest of self is a figment of egoistic mortal imagination. Self-motivated liberty is a conceptual illusion, a cruel deception. License masquerading in the garments of liberty is the forerunner of abject bondage.

(614.1) 54:1.6 True liberty is the associate of genuine self-respect; false liberty is the consort of self-admiration. True liberty is the fruit of self-control; false liberty, the assumption of self-assertion. Self-control leads to altruistic service; self-admiration tends towards the exploitation of others for the selfish aggrandizement of such a mistaken individual as is willing to sacrifice righteous attainment for the sake of possessing unjust power over his fellow beings.

(614.2) 54:1.7 Even wisdom is divine and safe only when it is cosmic in scope and spiritual in motivation.

(614.3) 54:1.8 There is no error greater than that species of self-deception which leads intelligent beings to crave the exercise of power over other beings for the purpose of depriving these persons of their natural liberties. The golden rule of human fairness cries out against all such fraud, unfairness, selfishness, and unrighteousness. Only true and genuine liberty is compatible with the reign of love and the ministry of mercy.

(614.4) 54:1.9 How dare the self-willed creature encroach upon the rights of his fellows in the name of personal liberty when the Supreme Rulers of the universe stand back in merciful respect for these prerogatives of will and potentials of personality! No being, in the exercise of his supposed personal liberty, has a right to deprive any other being of those privileges of existence conferred by the Creators and duly respected by all their loyal associates, subordinates, and subjects.

(614.8 ) 54:2.3 Lucifer’s folly was the attempt to do the nondoable, to short-circuit time in an experiential universe. Lucifer’s crime was the attempted creative disenfranchisement of every personality in Satania, the unrecognized abridgment of the creature’s personal participation — freewill participation — in the long evolutionary struggle to attain the status of light and life both individually and collectively. In so doing this onetime Sovereign of your system set the temporal purpose of his own will directly athwart the eternal purpose of God’s will as it is revealed in the bestowal of free will upon all personal creatures. The Lucifer rebellion thus threatened the maximum possible infringement of the freewill choice of the ascenders and servers of the system of Satania — a threat forevermore to deprive every one of these beings of the thrilling experience of contributing something personal and unique to the slowly erecting monument to experiential wisdom which will sometime exist as the perfected system of Satania. Thus does the Lucifer manifesto, masquerading in the habiliments of liberty, stand forth in the clear light of reason as a monumental threat to consummate the theft of personal liberty and to do it on a scale that has been approached only twice in all the history of Nebadon.

(615.1) 54:2.4 In short, what God had given men and angels Lucifer would have taken away from them, that is, the divine privilege of participating in the creation of their own destinies and of the destiny of this local system of inhabited worlds.

(615.2) 54:2.5 No being in all the universe has the rightful liberty to deprive any other being of true liberty, the right to love and be loved, the privilege of worshiping God and of serving his fellows.

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Re: A new song shall be composed

Post by overmind » Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:24 am

These two paragraphs also help answer your question, and pretty much sum up what I have already written.

(615.4) 54:3.2 Although conscious and wholehearted identification with evil (sin) is the equivalent of nonexistence (annihilation), there must always intervene between the time of such personal identification with sin and the execution of the penalty — the automatic result of such a willful embrace of evil — a period of time of sufficient length to allow for such an adjudication of such an individual’s universe status as will prove entirely satisfactory to all related universe personalities, and which will be so fair and just as to win the approval of the sinner himself.

(615.5) 54:3.3 But if this universe rebel against the reality of truth and goodness refuses to approve the verdict, and if the guilty one knows in his heart the justice of his condemnation but refuses to make such confession, then must the execution of sentence be delayed in accordance with the discretion of the Ancients of Days. And the Ancients of Days refuse to annihilate any being until all moral values and all spiritual realities are extinct, both in the evildoer and in all related supporters and possible sympathizers.

Just an FYI, this is all from Paper 54. I think if you read that Paper in its entirety, you will come to understand my position.

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Re: A new song shall be composed

Post by Sandy » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:04 am

Hello Yvonne,
I don’t know if this will help much but I found this in the archives... http://board.1111angels.com/viewtopic.p ... er#p169074

All of this is beyond my ability to fully comprehend... and I feel for those who become so tired with the lack they see within themselves and the task of self forgiveness, that they cease to exist... whether it is temporary as in suicide on this world or in a greater and a more permanent degree on the mansion worlds. The very thought of these losses makes me all the more determined to reach out to those in need of “Loves view” for themselves and for those around them. All things can be rectified, even the most heinous of crimes against humanity here and on universe levels with divine unconditional Love.
I truly wish Lucifer and the others involved in the rebellion, those that chose to become extinct rather then rehabilitation, could have seen beyond the hard task of self forgiveness... how by progressing into a greater and ever deepening love for all inhabitants of the universe and ultimately the Creator of all, they could have by their own “confused” path, been a most powerful example of Loves power to heal even the most heinous of “hearts.”

Well, as I said this area is beyond me... but I remember somewhere either in a transmit or via the Urantia book that Christ Michael “wept” when Lucifer” chose extinction. Each of these losses is felt deeply by our universe sovereign. It seems they are not left without, at the very least, a momentary eulogy.

with love,
Sandy
Humankind has not woven the web of life. We are but one thread within it. Whatever we do to the web, we do to ourselves. All things are bound together. All things connect.

~ Chief Seattle ~

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Re: A new song shall be composed

Post by overmind » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:55 am

It may also be important to note that while mercy is able to stall justice (in order to give beings time to repent among other things), an infinite amount of mercy prevents progression in the universe. If mercy is forever granted to evil, and the iniquitous ones know this, then there is no great reason for them to change who they are (at least in how they see it). The concept of infinite mercy for all things makes evil a possibility in eternity. Evil will always exist if it is always pardoned. Of course, immediate justice may end an even greater number of lives, so a middle ground is reached as decided upon by the Creator Sons and agreed upon by the Ancients of Days.

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